[quote="Blank"][quote="I is buster?"] *Words* Is [i]that[/i] what you meant to say?

The media feeds off of this war for profitable reasons, basically to the point where mocking your own country becomes commonplace because it's so popular...[/quote]

No. What I am saying is we were attacked by Al Qaeda, people were led to believe that Iraqi's caused the attacks on 9/11, and we went into a country knowing nothing about it i.e. gathering arms for battle. So the whole "bullcrap we wouldn't really do that" thing was generally funny because it's so naive.

And the that followed it represents my disgust that I found humor in your idealistic view of the world, because that whole "we wouldn't do that mentality" thing is what America "stands for" and stuff.

It was all just the irony.[/quote]

We didn't think that Iraq really had much to do with it. We thought that Hussein may have been supplying Al Queda with arms, but we also knew that Hussein was a mass murderer and needed to be taken out anyways. I agree that it was a stupid assumption that Iraq had anything directly to do with 9/11. However, that assumption came maybe a month or so after the attack, not right away. Then again, I HATE politics, so I am not going to talk anymore than I have, but I have a lot of faith in our government to do right more often than wrong. You may call it blind faith, but these people are much more intelligent than most people give credit for...

Unfortunately it is human nature to do injustice for others for benefit of themselves...

I is Buster is correct on all accounts (that I've read). We went to Afghanistan looking for those responsible for 9/11. We went to Iraq because of the possible threat of WMD's.

Guys, I know history is hard, but this was [i]four years ago[/i].

How the hell did this thread go from Transformers to talking about Iraq?

It was a pretty good movie btw.

[quote="sheerheartattack"]I is Buster is correct on all accounts [/quote]

lol, I'm surprised that you said that.

this movie is definitely only worth seeing in theatres.

[quote="sheerheartattack"]Guys, I know history is hard, but this was [i]four years ago[/i].[/quote]

30 dead americans a month says this is still relevant.



regarding transformers: glaring plot-holes and annoying side characters aside, SEE IT IN THE THEATERS. the "HOLY CRAP" factor overpowers it's shortcomings..

[quote="AWPJudy"][quote="sheerheartattack"]Guys, I know history is hard, but this was [i]four years ago[/i].[/quote]

30 dead americans a month says this is still relevant.
[/quote]

But apparently one country freed from a tyrannical dictator doesn't mean so much to the media

[quote="I is buster?"][quote="AWPJudy"][quote="sheerheartattack"]Guys, I know history is hard, but this was [i]four years ago[/i].[/quote]

30 dead americans a month says this is still relevant.
[/quote]

But apparently one country freed from a tyrannical dictator doesn't mean so much to the media [/quote]

but apparently our government setting up and supporting half the worlds dictators for the past, well, 100 years or so doesnt mean anything either lol.

saddam was our guy. we stopped supporting him when he got a tiny bit too uppity. wanna talk about tyrannical? hows about selling (illegally!) weapons (OF MASS DESTRUCTION LOL IRONY!) to BOTH sides of a war and watching themselves kill millions of each other? ooh, ooh, or taking the money from those illegal weapons sales (and drug sales! dont forget about our CIA getting money from that) to support ANOTHER dictator crush his countries own pesky attempt at democracy.

sounds pretty bad right?

you should back up your claims with actual names of countries.

[quote="clouds"]you should back up your claims with actual names of countries.[/quote]

i was refering to iran/contra, and the iran/iraq war, which is pretty well documented, i'm not some crazy conspiracy theorist.

U.S. State Department Policy Planning Study #23, 1948:
" Our real task... is to devise a pattern of relationships which will permit us to maintain this position of disparity [U.S. military- economic supremacy]... To do so, we will have to dispense with all sentimentality and day-dreaming... We should cease to talk about vague and...unreal objectives such as human rights, the raising of the living standards, and democratization... we are going to have to deal in straight power concepts. The less we are then hampered by idealistic slogans, the better."
George Kennan, Director of Policy Planning. U.S. State Department. 1948

so here's some names of other dictators we've at one point supported:

Abacha, General Sani ----------------------------Nigeria
Amin, Idi ------------------------------------------Uganda
Banzer, Colonel Hugo ---------------------------Bolivia
Batista, Fulgencio --------------------------------Cuba
Bolkiah, Sir Hassanal ----------------------------Brunei
Botha, P.W. ---------------------------------------South Africa
Branco, General Humberto ---------------------Brazil
Cedras, Raoul -------------------------------------Haiti
Cerezo, Vinicio -----------------------------------Guatemala
Chiang Kai-Shek ---------------------------------Taiwan
Cordova, Roberto Suazo ------------------------Honduras
Christiani, Alfredo -------------------------------El Salvador
Diem, Ngo Dihn ---------------------------------Vietnam
Doe, General Samuel ----------------------------Liberia
Duvalier, Francois --------------------------------Haiti
Duvalier, Jean Claude-----------------------------Haiti
Fahd bin'Abdul-'Aziz, King ---------------------Saudi Arabia
Franco, General Francisco -----------------------Spain
Hitler, Adolf ---------------------------------------Germany
Hassan II-------------------------------------------Morocco
Marcos, Ferdinand -------------------------------Philippines
Martinez, General Maximiliano Hernandez ---El Salvador
Mobutu Sese Seko -------------------------------Zaire
Noriega, General Manuel ------------------------Panama
Ozal, Turgut --------------------------------------Turkey
Pahlevi, Shah Mohammed Reza ---------------Iran
Papadopoulos, George --------------------------Greece
Park Chung Hee ---------------------------------South Korea
Pinochet, General Augusto ---------------------Chile
Pol Pot---------------------------------------------Cambodia
Rabuka, General Sitiveni ------------------------Fiji
Montt, General Efrain Rios ---------------------Guatemala
Salassie, Halie ------------------------------------Ethiopia
Salazar, Antonio de Oliveira --------------------Portugal
Somoza, Anastasio Jr. --------------------------Nicaragua
Somoza, Anastasio, Sr. -------------------------Nicaragua
Smith, Ian ----------------------------------------Rhodesia
Stroessner, Alfredo -----------------------------Paraguay
Suharto, General ---------------------------------Indonesia
Trujillo, Rafael Leonidas -----------------------Dominican Republic
Videla, General Jorge Rafael ------------------Argentina
Zia Ul-Haq, Mohammed ----------------------Pakistan

that quote is one of the most horrible things I've read in recent years.


But I don't think that quote was followed at all, considering the 50s and 60s reflected the opposite sentiment.

i think that quote is just as much our guiding force today; throw a couple slogans about freedon over top of it all you want, but at the core, that's driven our policy for.. now that i think about it, OVER 100 years. more like 200.

i mean come on, the marine corps very first over-seas deployment.. was it to free an ally? fight injustice?

no, it was to [b]protect shipping lanes[/b].

"In May 1801, the pasha demanded an increase in the tribute ($83,000) which the US government had been paying since 1796 for the protection of their commerce from piracy under the 1796 Treaty with Tripoli. The demand was refused, and a naval force was sent from the United States to blockade Tripoli. The First Barbary War dragged on for four years, the Americans in 1803 losing the frigate, Philadelphia, the commander (Captain William Bainbridge) and the whole crew being made prisoners. The most colorful incident in the war was the expedition undertaken by William Eaton [b]with the object of replacing the pasha with an elder brother living in exile, who had promised to accede to all the wishes of the United States[/b]"

there you have it. [b]200 years history of america attacking other countries and installing puppet governments for the sake of business.[/b]

i don't know, i don't think the america has followed any set guiding force. Just look at our current situation. Our strategy was one of isolation before this.

well its largely done through things like arming and training rebels, such that our millitary never has to get involved, we dont have to get our hands dirty

perfect example: osama bin laden was trained/supported/armed by the us government to fight the russians in afghanistan.

[quote="AWPJudy"]well its largely done through things like arming and training rebels, such that our millitary never has to get involved, we don't have to get our hands dirty

perfect example: osama bin laden was trained/supported/armed by the us government to fight the russians in afghanistan.[/quote]

Yeah, most of those people were allied with to fight the Russians. This is after the fact and now we have to deal with our stupid mistakes. How did we know that any of these people were going to be tyrannical dictators when given a wealth of power?

You act as though giving Afghanis the means to protect themselves from invasion is bad. Sure, I don't agree that any country should be invaded by another, but the threat of Soviet invasion was imminent. We had two options, sit back and watch Russia's superior army forcefully invade a country or step in somehow to protect their freedom. I'm sure their were some business or supply related ambitions in there, but that is how our country has run since it's birth, as well as many others. Japan for instance invaded Manchuria and others because Japan has jack-shit in natural resources. What do you think colonization was all about?

Don't say we're in Iraq or Afghanistan for oil, because that is all just bullcrap...