To be honest, I just find these conversations challenging and fun, although it has come down to a misunderstanding of semantics, rather than an actual argument.

[quote="Marekenshin"]I'm going to just ignore most of this back and forth argument, which may end up sadly getting this thread locked/derailed beyond repair and talk about clouds's song again.

Clouds. I like dissonance. Ask sheerheartattack; I tolerate more dissonance in music than he does. However, dissonance is mainly a tool used to add more texture and flavor before resolving to a consonant chord. I said that there were some very interesting parts in your song, but that it dragged on for far too long. Would you like Strange Chameleon if they repeated the first verse five times EXACTLY, then sang the chorus once, then the first verse a few times, then a bridge, then the first verse five times? Thought that's a bit of an exaggeration, it's slightly akin to what you made there. By having little semblance of structure and dragging on for so long, it makes the song uninteresting. The parts that could have been interesting and catchy are forgotten because of the sheer length and repetitiveness of the song.[/quote]

I wasn't trying to be catchy, though. I wasn't even trying to be dissonant. I did drag it on, but that was my choice, and I'd prefer it over a shorter one with only the parts that you consider interesting. I like the fact that it takes a long time to get to anything in particular. It's my judgment call. I put it on here for you guys to have fun with and bash, and I guess it's getting it's mileage. I didn't expect you guys to appreciate, but I am a bit unnerved that some of you are willing to say it's not music.

Art can serve both a utilitarian purpose and an aesthetically pleasing one.

I rather liked clouds' song. It's obviously meant to be experimental and not geared towards anyone who expects slick 3-minute pop songs.

It contained rhythm in a couple of different forms, and bits of melody here and there. I'm more than willing to call it music, if it is indeed unorthodox.

Also, I'm pretty confident after reading this that despite his stubbornness, sheer has been pwnt. EDIT: To clarify - his opinions aren't what I'm questioning. His arguments are. I've just seen a couple people pretty much poke holes through aspects of his arguments which he's not doing a good job of directly refuting - hence [i]my[/i] opinion that he's been "pwnt."

Now let's get back to posting our songs before I have to lock this monstrosity. If you want to continue the discussion, I daresay it deserves its own thread.

[quote="Joyeuse"]Also, I'm pretty confident after reading this that despite his stubbornness, [b]sheer has been pwnt.[/b]

[b]Now let's get back to posting our songs before I have to lock this monstrosity. [/b] If you want to continue the discussion, I daresay it deserves its own thread.[/quote]

Oh come on. That's a total pussy move right there.

If you really want the topic to get back on track, you shouldn't try to clear it up with "you've been owned / you've put valid opinions out there for no real reason."

It's like making up with a friend: "Ah. Well, I'm glad we got that figured out!" "Yeah. It's alright. Good to move past that, you know?" "Yeah." "..." "Bitch."

The ending dig isn't needed. Especially for a mod.

First of all, any comments on clouds' song were purely satirical and open to debate. I just plain didn't like the song, so I made fun of it. Go figure. Nobody does that.

However, what I am certain of are the definitions by which I set up. Music requires the dimensions of rhythm, melody, and harmony. Art requires aesthetics. The end.

[quote="clouds"][quote="Marekenshin"]I'm going to just ignore most of this back and forth argument, which may end up sadly getting this thread locked/derailed beyond repair and talk about clouds's song again.

Clouds. I like dissonance. Ask sheerheartattack; I tolerate more dissonance in music than he does. However, dissonance is mainly a tool used to add more texture and flavor before resolving to a consonant chord. I said that there were some very interesting parts in your song, but that it dragged on for far too long. Would you like Strange Chameleon if they repeated the first verse five times EXACTLY, then sang the chorus once, then the first verse a few times, then a bridge, then the first verse five times? Thought that's a bit of an exaggeration, it's slightly akin to what you made there. By having little semblance of structure and dragging on for so long, it makes the song uninteresting. The parts that could have been interesting and catchy are forgotten because of the sheer length and repetitiveness of the song.[/quote]

I wasn't trying to be catchy, though. I wasn't even trying to be dissonant. I did drag it on, but that was my choice, and I'd prefer it over a shorter one with only the parts that you consider interesting. I like the fact that it takes a long time to get to anything in particular. It's my judgment call. I put it on here for you guys to have fun with and bash, and I guess it's getting it's mileage. I didn't expect you guys to appreciate, but I am a bit unnerved that some of you are willing to say it's not music.[/quote]

A song doesn't have to be catchy to be good, but a song also has to be able to gain and hold the interest of an audience. I've listened to it three times now, though I only listened straight through without jumping around the first time, and the song as a whole doesn't meet my tastes. I only commented on the dissonance because you were trying to call us on just not liking dissonance. :/ Also, not trying to be mean, but I don't see why you'd expect people to do more than say "that was odd" towards that song, so expecting us to not "appreciate" it is definitely the way to go in this case.

The distortion was up so high that it was hard to even hear the rhythm chords and the mixing made it so that melodies were obscured. As I've said, this can be fun, it gets boring after about eight minutes. I have to say, I actually found the part with the vocals to be nice harmonically, and the ending bit was much better and more interesting than the earlier parts.

tl;dr version: If that's what you're into, cool, but don't expect people to like it or it to evoke much feeling other than boredom.

EDIT: Also, the distortion isn't just what makes it hard to listen to, it's the quality of the rhythm recording. The distortion combined with a bunch of static and air interference or something makes it hard to hear what the hell is being played.

[quote="GoldenRhino"]Oh come on. That's a total pussy move right there.

The ending dig isn't needed. Especially for a mod.[/quote]

Neither is calling me a pussy. Supposedly, namecalling on these boards isn't to be tolerated, but most of the time you're all so intent on each other that I just ignore it.

When it's aimed at me though, I don't have to take this shit. You're banned for a week.

The thing is that there are people who like it. I agree that the vocals are nice harmonically. And I layered any melody in distortion(ala big muff). I myself really enjoy my song, but whatever. I'm not yelling at anybody for not liking my song, but for calling it "not music" as I said before.


[quote]The ending dig isn't needed. Especially for a mod.[/quote]

I don't see why a mod can't do that, it's just as much his right as anyone else, it's not like he is abusing his powers any.

[quote="Joyeuse"][quote="GoldenRhino"]Oh come on. That's a total pussy move right there.

The ending dig isn't needed. Especially for a mod.[/quote]

Neither is calling me a pussy. Supposedly, namecalling on these boards isn't to be tolerated, but most of the time you're all so intent on each other that I just ignore it.

When it's aimed at me though, I don't have to take this shit. You're banned for a week.[/quote]

In his defense, he never called you a pussy. He only described your actions as being typical of one.

I'd just like to express that I disagree with your regrettable actions, Joyeuse, and that I agree with GoldenRhino.

[quote="clouds"]The thing is that there are people who like it. I agree that the vocals are nice harmonically. And I layered any melody in distortion(ala big muff). I myself really enjoy my song, but whatever. I'm not yelling at anybody for not liking my song, but for calling it "not music" as I said before.


[quote]The ending dig isn't needed. Especially for a mod.[/quote]

I don't see why a mod can't do that, it's just as much his right as anyone else, it's not like he is abusing his powers any.[/quote]

To clarify, also, I don't adamantly argue or necessarily believe that what you produced was not music. That was just a jab at you. I'm really sorry if you took that much offense to it.

I actually enjoyed clouds' song from about 5:00 and on. I'd like to know what kind of recording set up you used.

I tend to fall into the "music is whatever you want it to be" crowd. While I don't listen to any noise music for enjoyment, I really appreciate new and unique sounds. I had a theory teacher a year ago who was really into musique concréte and avant-garde 20th century composers whose pieces are much more worthy of the "Is this music?" argument than clouds' song.

[quote="overAmped"]I actually enjoyed clouds' song from about 5:00 and on.[/quote]

Yeah, that was about where it started to get interesting to me too.

Really it's not that complicated. I ran a guitar, bass and piano through my big muff, and then to my bass amp, and then thtough my little imic onto audacity. 5:00 and on is all of the instruments. Lots of sustain and I doubled my vocals and moved the second one back a little for that nice echoey sound.

If the "not music" was just a jab at me,sheer, then fine. I mean, I'll live either way. but you could have made it a lot simpler if you said 5 pages back "it's just a joke guys"

[quote="Joyeuse"][quote="GoldenRhino"]Oh come on. That's a total pussy move right there.

The ending dig isn't needed. Especially for a mod.[/quote]

Neither is calling me a pussy. Supposedly, namecalling on these boards isn't to be tolerated, but most of the time you're all so intent on each other that I just ignore it.

When it's aimed at me though, I don't have to take this shit. You're banned for a week.[/quote]

Abusing your power detracts somewhat from any validity your complaint about being called a pussy might have held

antiEDIT: to undo a minor previous edit to word choice that was quoted before I could properly twiddle my thumbs due to mare's impressive reaction speed. I would wager, however, that kryptonite might slow 'is fingers up :0/

[quote="clouds"]Really it's not that complicated. I ran a guitar, bass and piano through my big muff, and then to my bass amp, and then thtough my little imic onto audacity. 5:00 and on is all of the instruments. Lots of sustain and I doubled my vocals and moved the second one back a little for that nice echoey sound.

If the "not music" was just a jab at me,sheer, then fine. I mean, I'll live either way. but you could have made it a lot simpler if you said 5 pages back "it's just a joke guys"[/quote]

I get you, but when I find an argument I can make, or if someone makes an ignorant comment, I just have to go at it. Like I said, I just find it to be fun. But seriously, sorry.

[quote="Snigwel"][quote="Joyeuse"][quote="GoldenRhino"]Oh come on. That's a total pussy move right there.

The ending dig isn't needed. Especially for a mod.[/quote]

Neither is calling me a pussy. Supposedly, namecalling on these boards isn't to be tolerated, but most of the time you're all so intent on each other that I just ignore it.

When it's aimed at me though, I don't have to take this shit. You're banned for a week.[/quote]

Abusing your power detracts somewhat from any validity your complaint about being called a pussy might have held[/quote]

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