Rock n Roll was like Chuck Berry and those people. Rock started after that.

BS. Rock is shorthand for rock and roll. You can still call rock music rock and roll.

That's like calling gospel blues.

No, it's really not.

Rock and roll (also spelled rock 'n' roll, especially in its first decade), also called rock, is a form of popular music, usually featuring vocals (often with vocal harmony), electric guitars and a strong back beat; other instruments, such as the saxophone, are common in some styles.

Traditional rock and roll is what you're thinking of. This distinction is similar to that which some might make between "old-school" hip-hop and current rap styles. Even though there are marked differences between the two styles, they fall under the same label of "rap" music.

Well, you wanted to argue the point, so I had to.

See, this is why I don't like discussing genres.

But there are still rock and roll musicians. and maybe it is a sub genre of the much wider genre of rock, but so is pop rock, and they are markedly different.


[quote]a form of popular music, usually featuring vocals (often with vocal harmony), electric guitars and a strong back beat; other instruments, such as the saxophone, are common in some styles. [/quote]

this is so general it's not even funny.

[quote="clouds drive monster"]But there are still rock and roll musicians. and maybe it is a sub genre of the much wider genre of rock, but so is pop rock, and they are markedly different.


[quote="jomei"]a form of popular music, usually featuring vocals (often with vocal harmony), electric guitars and a strong back beat; other instruments, such as the saxophone, are common in some styles. [/quote]

this is so general it's not even funny.[/quote]

[quote="clouds drive monster"]But there are still rock and roll musicians. and maybe it is a sub genre of the much wider genre of rock, but so is pop rock, and they are markedly different.[/quote]

How can rock and roll be a subgenre when it's what started it all? Pop rock is still rock and roll just as bebop is still jazz. Criticize me for being general all you want because rock and roll is a general term.

[quote][catfish] rock and roll
[catfish] jomei doesn't know what the blankity rock and roll is
[catfish] he is heinously ignorant
[catfish] rock and rolll is a product of bo diddley's rumba-based rythyms
[catfish] all rock and roll draws from either that or john lee hooker's use of syncopation
[catfish] you don't find that in "rock"
[catfish] *always
[catfish] or at least it's not a defining characteristic of rock
[catfish] you definitley don't hear that in my foot
[Knifin] Nope
[catfish] the "john lee hooker groove" gave way to the "bo diddley beat" and all rock and roll co-opted that and made it the basis of their music
[catfish] jomei is a stupid something who doesn't know blank about history
[catfish] trad r&r usually reduces harmony in favor of rythym
[catfish] that's why it's called R&R
[catfish] becuase it blankity blank rocks and rolls you dumb something
[catfish] how are you supposed to rock or roll to anything on my foot?
[catfish] trad R&R often avoids chord changes as well
[catfish] early rock was all about adapting the clave into a even more accesible rhythmic pattern
[catfish] yeah, the pillows are really using the rhumba clave on my foot
[catfish] don't shout me down when i'm preachin good[/quote]

[quote="clouds drive monster"][quote][catfish] rock and roll
[catfish] jomei doesn't know what the fuck rock and roll is
[catfish] he is heinously ignorant
[catfish] rock and rolll is a product of bo diddley's rumba-based rythyms
[catfish] all rock and roll draws from either that or john lee hooker's use of syncopation
[catfish] you don't find that in "rock"
[catfish] *always
[catfish] or at least it's not a defining characteristic of rock
[catfish] you definitley don't hear that in my foot
[Knifin] Nope
[catfish] the "john lee hooker groove" gave way to the "bo diddley beat" and all rock and roll co-opted that and made it the basis of their music
[catfish] jomei is a stupid faggot who doesn't know shit about history
[catfish] trad r&r usually reduces harmony in favor of rythym
[catfish] that's why it's called R&R
[catfish] becuase it fucking rocks and rolls you dumb faggot
[catfish] how are you supposed to rock or roll to anything on my foot?
[catfish] trad R&R often avoids chord changes as well
[catfish] early rock was all about adapting the clave into a even more accesible rhythmic pattern
[catfish] yeah, the pillows are really using the rhumba clave on my foot
[catfish] don't shout me down when i'm preachin good[/quote][/quote]

Since catfish is such an expert in music, let's hear some of his playing.

Oh wait. That's right. He's not really a musician, despite his superiority complex in dealing with all things related to music.

Secondly, is clouds allowed to post catfish's calling me a faggot?

go ahead and attack the person instead of the argument. And i can edit the quote if you'd like.

Last time I checked, you were the one running to catfish to attack the person with whom you were debating. I already made my point on the discussion. Rock and roll and Rock are, for all logical purposes, interchangeable.

To get back to the point, Shin's drumming isn't that bad for a rock and roll (or rock, you wish, so catfish can get his panties out of a knot) album. Any lacking aspect is not to be blamed Sawao' strumming patterns. I have played in many bands and not once have I been told that my strumming patterns have hindered anyone else's rhythmic creativity.

If Chichiro can't come up with something more creative, it's his fault and no one else's.

Honestly, I wasn't there for this conversation between knifin and catfish. knifin showed it to me and i thought it relevant. Besides, I don't know half as much about music history as catfish does. I think what people are forgetting is what is right is more important than our opinions.