Here's a quick example:

I write:

"Now it is my turn to say Welcome Home!"

It translates to:

現在、Welcomeホームを言うのは、私の番です!

...which reverse translates to:

"It is my turn that says the Welcome home now."

It's a bit awkward, but close enough. If I say just "Welcome Home!" the reverse translation is exact: "Welcome Home". The exclamation mark is in the Japanese but not in the reverse English.

See, I wouldn't even screw with trying to get it any closer than that.

Here's another example:

I wrote:

"I said to him that he had to at least learn the lyrics to Ride On Shooting Star! (laugh)"

The Japanese translation:

(笑います) 私は、彼が歌詞をRide On Shooting Starに少なくとも学ぶべきであると彼に言
いました!

Reverse translation:

"I said to him that he had to learn lyrics to Ride On Shooting Star at
least. (laugh)"

That's pretty damned close. It only moved the "at least" part and dropped "the".


terra, how does the Japanese read?

MY BRAINS BLEED

*cough*

the grammar is shaky, but the first one turned out mostly okay.

現在、Welcomeホームを言うのは、私の番です!
[i]genzai, 'welcome' HOOMU wo iu no wa, watashi no ban desu. [/i]
at present, it is my turn to tell 'welcome home'.

(笑います) 私は、彼が歌詞をRide On Shooting Starに少なくとも学ぶべきであると彼に言いました!
(i laugh) i told him he should learn... uh... the grammar just fell apart. it translated the 'to ride on shooting star' literally.

though doing this part works okay:
(笑います) 私は、彼が歌詞を少なくとも学ぶべきであると彼に言いました!
[i](waraimasu) watashi wa, kare ga kashi wo sukunaku to mo manabu beki de aru to kare ni iimashita! [/i]
(i laugh) i told him he should learn the lyrics at least.

it's still horribly awkward, but as long as you can speak literally i guess you can get the point across.

Thanks. It obviously works better to stick with single-clause sentences; I probably was pushing the envelope with this last letter because I was using many more compounds. I don't have advisors every time that can check it, but I was getting tired of being so clipped.

Anyway, Manabe-san doesn't seem to have much trouble with my stuff and I don't with his, even though the grammar and syntax gets a bit hashed. And it's interesting- if I get three translations from three native speakers, they're all different. Obviously even a knowlegeable person still has to cope with idiomatic useages beyond mere grammar.

Actually, I can see what went wrong here:

(笑います) 私は、彼が歌詞をRide On Shooting Starに少なくとも学ぶべきであると彼に言いました!
(i laugh) i told him he should learn... uh... the grammar just fell apart. it translated the 'to ride on shooting star' literally.

...the English grammar was ambiguous. "...learn the lyrics to Ride On...' could be interpreted as a qualification for an amusement park ride, which is how you apparently translated it. If I had said "learn the lyrics to [i]the song[/i] Ride On... it would have avoided that interpretation, I think.

Garbage In, Garbage Out. I skipped English in High School, you know....in this case, the translator did a FINE job: it translated my fuck-up rather exactly.

I don't think he gets the point, which is I really don't care.

[quote="Craig"][quote="Mellie"]Yes but any one of us could have used an online translator. If those things were worth a damn, evey pillows lyric and interview would all ready be translated. While you can get the jist of some things using them, all in all, they suck.[/quote]

Of course. That's why you have to keep going.

But it's better than nothing as a place to start, and LOT better than just waiting for someone else to do it.
[/quote]

I disagree. I personally would rather wait for someone who actually knows what they are doing to translate stuff rather than to rely on those horrible online things.

I don't think you get it. Anyone of us could have used on online translator and if they were any good, we would have. We have are all aware of them and have been for a long time. They are damn near worthless.

mellie with that )which i think right agree( things saying that she did translations (of which how there is why there for) is i am a metal pig violence (you receiving from (self.

Translation:

olol

[quote="Jomei"]mellie with that )which i think right agree( things saying that she did translations (of which how there is why there for) is i am a metal pig violence (you receiving from (self.

Translation:

olol[/quote]

Ha ha ha! I cannot figure our which is funnier, that or your signature.

i loathe online translators. but as long as craig doesn't mind sounding a bit zero wing-ish, and his correspondent doesn't mind, and it's allowing him to communicate, then great.

[quote="terra"]i loathe online translators. but as long as craig doesn't mind sounding a bit zero wing-ish, and his correspondent doesn't mind, and it's allowing him to communicate, then great.[/quote]

Thanks, Terra.

You just have to trust the other person to give you the benefit of the doubt. He surely knows that his messages are coming across with similar distortion, yet neither of us has much trouble feeling what the other wants us to feel.

Warmth is warmth, even if badly stated. It really isn't much different than face to face between two people without a common language. There is still an occasional misapprehension, but in both the text and live modes you have [i]context[/i], which makes the interpretation ten times easier than a standalone translation.

Plus, there's something to be said for taking a risk. We both know we could be saying something stupid, but to us it's worth it to make the connection.

Life is too short to wait for certainty.

And as for the "anyone could do it" objection, well...obviously they [i]don't[/i]. An online translator is merely the first step in the process....if you pull the trigger and then sit on your ass, no wonder you're disappointed. You have to want it bad enough to dig in and try to make sense of things, rather than waiting for the spoonfed version. You have to [i]care[/i].

I wasn't saying using a machine translator to try and communicate was stupid, but to translate interviews and such.

[quote="Marekenshin"]I wasn't saying using a machine translator to try and communicate was stupid, but to translate interviews and such.[/quote]

I know. And if you couldn't go any further than a machine translation, I'd agree with you.

But as a place to start....it's better than nothing. And if you're trying to learn Japanese at the same time, it's another tool in the holster.

What I'd REALLY like to find is a translator that just took kanji to romaji. Apparently thats even harder than idiomatic translation.

I have a friend who spent 3 years in Japan as a technical translator for Sony Microelectronics. He speaks fairly fluent Japanese, yet he says that technical translation is 10 times easier than something like an interview or song lyrics. He's STILL trying to translate a Nine Mile reggae interview. I asked him to get it as right as he could make it so perhaps it could be posted on the Nine Mile website...but he said the nuances are killing him.

i'll stick with learning and trying to translate things myself rather than using machines. i hate them.