[quote="Aplaca"]There is more to Tyler than that. He doesn't like the way most people view him, so he 'acts out'. He uses his immaturity and young age as a crutch for his exaggerated passive aggression (and probably his regrettable use of the word 'faggot'). Thoughout his album Goblin he makes it a point to remind the listeners that "this is fiction." Maybe I'm putting Tyler on a pedestal, but I can relate to most of his songs to a point where it's a little disturbing. You can't take his lyrics about rape and shit at face value, but I understand why you don't like it. I mean fuck, it's rape. If you wanna give him another chance, give the song Bastard a listen.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PFTLouiUFjI[/quote]

No matter Tyler's intentions, I also try to be really aware (in all media, not just Tyler) about what the actual impact is on the audience. Intent is nice and all, but if most listeners aren't reading Tyler's (or Kanye's or whoever) content as dramatic irony or whatever. Also, I'd point out that however radical and challenging Tyler is trying to be ("This is fiction," 'cant take it at face value'), the reality is that he's chosen the whole violence and sexism thing again. I don't think he's really turning anything on its head. It's still a major mainstream contribution to the same imagery we've been seeing again and again - it's just under a fresher guise.

It's like how Duke Nukem Forever (COMPLETELY ignoring it's outdatedness and shittiness as a game) is self-aware, and lampoons popular tropes in action FPS games...but then ends up being just another terrible action FPS game, filled with tropes. I'm not comparing the quality of Tyler's output to DNF's at all, I'm just sayin, repackaging/reframing the same stuff isn't necessarily new and different. I think it can be, but not here.

ITT: We make Aplaca feel bad.
But seriously, I've always liked Yonkers, at least.[url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XSbZidsgMfw]Cool PV[/url], IMO.
I agree with what GR's saying. There's little revolutionary about the guy, but I feel like his delivery makes him more interesting than most of his contemporaries. Some may disagree (which is OK) and some may hate the material no matter who's behind it (which is also OK).

The Olivia Tremor Control. I don't know if anyone on here knows or cares but Bill Doss died back in July.

I'm not a big Tyler fan, but I haven't heard too much from him. However GR, your argument is coming off as a media manifestation ie. violent music breeds violence, and I don't buy that. If anything, dislike him for delivery, flow, lyrical cohesion, etc. But as Alpaca says, he's not condoning rape or anything.

[quote="MyFoot"]However GR, your argument is coming off as a media manifestation ie. violent music breeds violence, and I don't buy that. If anything, dislike him for delivery, flow, lyrical cohesion, etc. But as Alpaca says, he's not condoning rape or anything.[/quote]
A few months ago I might've agreed, however entertainers are in a special position in our society and what they choose to talk about in their art does have a certain amount of influence over their audience. Now, I'm not saying that Tyler's fans are a bunch of murderers or rapists, however one could argue that music like his serves to normalize violence and other such things in the public consciousness. Listening to and promoting violent content in media does little to help the public's fascination with such things.

EDIT: Also, Olivia Tremor Control is pretty cool. I was very sad to hear about Bill Doss.

Good ol' Buzzcocks.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5UCVmNb05Rw

I also can't stop listening to Berochu- by Ging Nang BOYZ for some reason.

OFWGKTADGAFLLBBLSBFBN

[quote="MyFoot"]I'm not a big Tyler fan, but I haven't heard too much from him. However GR, your argument is coming off as a media manifestation ie. violent music breeds violence, and I don't buy that. If anything, dislike him for delivery, flow, lyrical cohesion, etc. But as Alpaca says, he's not condoning rape or anything.[/quote]

My comment wasn't a judgement in that regard, I don't think Tyler is condoning rape or anything. My comment had nothing to do with if people *should* or shouldn't listen to his music. But I do think that popular artists have a special ability to help shift dialogue regarding any topic really - and that certain hip hop performers choose to keep promoting toxic and abusive messages about relationships is something we should be critical of. I'm less concerned about Kanye celebrating all of his Benzes and racks on racks on racks, because most of his listeners are pretty distant from the ability to acquire multiple luxury cars and count their stacks of tens of thousands of dollars. But when you're talking about things that hit much closer to home, like intimate relationships, I think there's a lot more room for listeners to internalize messages from mainstream media.

Gears of War isn't going to encourage many kids to pick up chainsaw-assault rifles and go nuts in their school, but if Love The Way You Lie contributes to a guy or girl tolerating a seemingly abusive relationship even for a moment (as the song *romanticizes violent emotional/physical conflict*), then that really sucks. And I do think that's a more realistic scenario.

I didn't want to turn this into a "THIS KIND OF HIP HOP IS DANGEROUS" discussion, but I can't accept the notion that mainstream media is impotent. It's entirely potent.

I just simply disagree with you. Here's a lot of the Odd Future crew in one of my favorite songs, Oldie
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fzi24Nssiow

I'd have to disagree as well...media is much more an effect of societal behavior than a cause.

Not to derail, but could you guys say a little bit more than "I disagree?" Advertising is a multi-billion dollar industry because it's been proven to affect how people *act* - what we buy, how we shape our identity, what causes we support, even how we view our own bodies (too fat, too scrawny, not masculine/feminine enough). The vast majority of us see more manufacted men and women on TV/online/films/magazines than *real people* every day.

Modern mainstream hip hop, like *all music genres*, sells an image. Tyler, to Common, to Nicki Minaj, to Macklemore all try to create and sell a version of "authenticity" in their own ways. Tyler the Creator does not exist in a vacuum. Tyler requires the context of modern hip hop to create his own version of authenticity, and make it sellable. A snapshot of modern hip hop culture is not a snap shot of actual modern black youth culture. Most people who buy hip hop are suburban white kids because they're attracted to the exoticism of wanton materialism and machismo. Kanye West is not real. The same is true for metal bands, or 'indie' rockers, and country stars. Our society is dominated by manufactured, meticulously designed images of people - and its cyclical. To dismiss media as a 'byproduct' of 'societal behavior' is to be a cultural dupe and be ignorant to the fact that you're always being bought and sold on identities, all the time. The example may seem silly, but I think it's totally legit: [img]http://gearpipe.com/i/TOGPoster.jpg[/img]

On one hand, guitars are guitars are guitars. They are instruments designed to make pretty sounds in slightly different ways, with some attention to aesthetics. But that's not nearly the end of the story. Every guitar is informed by a history of who has traditionally used the bodyshape, and what it 'means' to use that guitar. Are you a wholesome gentleman, or are you a metal-chugging sleazeball?

And I don't want to imply that critical awareness of advertising and mass media in any way "frees" you from its power. We're pretty much always affected by this stuff.

edit: [b]Also. It is totally okay to like Tyler, Kanye, or whoever you want. I am not against enjoying the music you enjoy. All I wanted to address in this discussion was that we try real hard to identify *what is new/fresh* and what is the same old shit in a new package.[/b] Tyler and other hip hop artists have a *world* of other shit to be talking about. Literally *anything* should be fair game. Any. Topic. But we get more violence, sexism, etc. (some of the time, not all the time). And then there are the less-tread topics, like mental health, so kudos to that. But just realize that when you say "fresh," you may be talking more about the persona, or the delivery, or the sharpness of the lyricism, not the actual lyrical content. And that's okay.

Indicud is fucking brilliant. I've loved Just What I Am for a long time now, but the whole album is top notch.

Been listening to Yuck a bit since I recently heard that Daniel from Yuck is no longer with them. But they're recording a new album this week! I'm going to miss his voice, but I don't doubt the new album to be amazing.
If you don't know them, t
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=89UNel7Fav4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_3tvLHgjaco

Also, recently read an article about Capital STEEZ and I checked him out and really dug him. I've heard of Joey Bada$$ before, but not this guy, and I like him better. Sad story though...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XcmR8DxuHBA

Been listening to Anatakikou and Felt lately.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oortdxYMsII
Chillin', easy music
Takin' it slow and easy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qz4zxhCVkks
Dat bass. It's bad ass.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BrwYudR ... CB40E3F77B
Same singer, same coolness. It's so gooood.
[size=85](especially that ending solo)[/size] Be sure to check it out.