I take back my 8 words.

[quote="Ashinow"][quote="Jomei"]Give it to me in ten words or less![/quote]
Serious songs don't exist, only serious people.[/quote]

>serious plan

Now there's a serious song.

Another facet of musical "seriousness" can be seen from a compositional standpoint. In that aspect, the pillows music has also declined.

The majority of upbeat songs off of post-PML up through Thank You My Twilight have much more to them than the upbeat numbers from Wake Up, Pied Piper, OoParts, Horn Again, etc... Exceptions in all respectable places, of course. And I consider Penalty Life, Good Dreams, and My Foot a kind of hazy area in terms of musical composition, the quality and strength of the musical writing is a bit inconsistent, song to song (moreso than the earlier albums).

I believe nearly every album has a song or two that is very simple in its musical composition, however. If anyone is interested in this dynamic, I'd be glad to elaborate on the discussion.

Elaborate as much as possibe , I would say =P.
[size=50]maybe you can make me sleepy[/size]

[quote="Ashinow"]Elaborate as much as possibe , I would say =P.
[size=50]maybe you can make me sleepy[/size][/quote]

Goddamit. I was expecting to get this response, but now that it's here, I'm kinda like, "Well shit... now I have to go back and make an argument." xD

Well, the reason I didn't include songs from before PML is because I think it is fairly obvious that songs from the previous periods (at least, the music from WI-LF, including Tiny Boat and the original Liberty) are simply written in a higher degree of complexity than anything that comes after them, for the most part (might be some exceptions here, I'm sure we could point them out if we wanted).

But, even after that... the pillows retain a lot of their values of intricacy from PML-TYMT. They layer the studio tracks with third and fourth guitars or other instruments/sounds (Carnival, Fool on the Planet, Monster C.C, etc...), have extremely engaging lead guitar lines and riffs (Happy Bivouac, Sono Mirai wa Ima, You Stood there, Like an Angel, Hybrid Rainbow, Skeleton Liar, Babylon Tenshi, Terminal, etc...), extremely cool and memorable solos (Last Dinosaur, Hybrid Rainbow, No Self Control, Skeleton Liar, Thank You My Twilight, You Stood there Like an Angel), and in general, just a higher and more varying degree of stylistics and flow. Things are fresh and happening in ways never quite heard before.

The farther into the discography we go however, these things start to diminish. The quality of Manabe's lead lines, solos and riffs has fallen noticeably. Sawao's vocal melodies are still great, but the choruses in particular are bland and easily identifiable with pop music you hear everywhere, or expect to hear from the pillows (the latter goes to the "good" songs they release now a days, IMO). Obviously there are exceptions, but in general I think we will all find that, if we look objectively into the composition of the pillows music, there is a general decline in how the songs are written.

Eh, someone throw a counter at me, I'm kinda getting lost here. Sorry, I have a crazy week ahead of me, and probably shouldn't be sitting here discussing this right now. x.x

[quote="Tidusauron12"] Tiny Boat and the original Liberty[/quote]


At any rate, I agree with this assesment.

I do believe that layering things leads to more complexity. When I said layer, I didn't necessarily mean "add another guitar playing the same thing", but rather, "add another guitar playing an addition harmony". As I listed in the example, songs like Carnival and Fool on the Planet do this well. And adding harmonies to something [i]is[/i] increasing its complexity. the pillows have varying degrees of complexity from song to song, but it is in a higher order in older albums than the new.

As for Manabe's lead playing... all I can say is listen to the music. There are times when Manabe is playing chords that simply fill in the harmony, sure. But the occurrence of unique and memorable lead lines/riffs is much more present in the music the farther back in the discography you go. There are numerous examples of this. The lead playing in Ice Pick, Strange Chameleon, That House, Blues Drive Monster, Happy Bivouac, Carnival, Kim Deal, Funny Bunny, Skeleton Liar, White Summer, etc...

Now compare that lead playing to post-My Foot. What do you observe? Scarecrow, New Animal, Ameagari... Um... am I missing things? There are songs that have interesting lead in the modern era of pillows music of course, but to say that any of it approaches the olden days is simply false. You can play these lead lines for yourself and see the distinction. His lead guitar play has become much more chordal and less stand out over the years. I thought this was accepted across the board around here.

Manabe's former style of lead play supports counterpoint and non-chord tone harmonies, which have much to do with complexity in music. When these things began to wane, harmonic complexity does as well.

As for style and flow, I agree that complexity doesn't have much to do with those - [i]necessarily[/i] anyways -in music. That was irrelevant.

[quote="Tidusauron12"]I do believe that layering things leads to more complexity.[/quote]

I agree, but when it can't be accomplished live it is not very good. Example, The Smiths lives sound empty compared to the studio versions since Johnny was layer crazy, and could not recreate it live. the pillows make music more for live playing I believe.

[quote="Tidusauron12"]The lead playing in Ice Pick, Strange Chameleon, That House, Blues Drive Monster, Happy Bivouac, Carnival, Kim Deal, Funny Bunny, Skeleton Liar, White Summer, etc...[/quote]

I love Blues Drive Monster, but that lead line is just plain simple. It is no comparison to the perfection of Strange Chameleon.

[quote="Tidusauron12"]His lead guitar play has become much more chordal and less stand out over the years.[/quote]

Manabe has always been a heavy chordal lead player, and I applaud him for that. Being able to fuse lead and rhythm guitar like he has, in such a balanced and beautiful way is my goal.

[quote="TJWX5"][quote="Tidusauron12"]I do believe that layering things leads to more complexity.[/quote]

I agree, but when it can't be accomplished live it is not very good. Example, The Smiths lives sound empty compared to the studio versions since Johnny was layer crazy, and could not recreate it live. the pillows make music more for live playing I believe.[/quote]

Totally. The pillows write music that is very easy to notate.

[quote="Tidusauron12"]The lead playing in Ice Pick, Strange Chameleon, That House, Blues Drive Monster, Happy Bivouac, Carnival, Kim Deal, Funny Bunny, Skeleton Liar, White Summer, etc...[/quote]

[quote="TJWX5"]I love Blues Drive Monster, but that lead line is just plain simple. It is no comparison to the perfection of Strange Chameleon.[/quote]

OK... it was a list of songs with great lead playing, not a list of songs with "the same degree of awesome lead playing". Anyways, while complexity of single parts helps the overall complexity of the whole, it isn't necessarily needed for each part to be complex for the whole to be. I admit that Blues Drive Monster, musically is simple as hell. Harmonically, most songs by the pillows are. Still, dynamic lead playing (along with other factors) lead to another level of complexity in pillows music. BDM probably isn't the best example of that, but hey... it was after midnight when I wrote that. It's still just 5 AM. xD

[quote="Tidusauron12"]His lead guitar play has become much more chordal and less stand out over the years.[/quote]

[quote="TJWX5"]Manabe has always been a heavy chordal lead player, and I applaud him for that. Being able to fuse lead and rhythm guitar like he has, in such a balanced and beautiful way is my goal. [/quote]


Yeah, I might agree with this if you said it back around the time My Foot or something was out. But if you listen to something like Wake Up, then you began to notice that his ability to "fuse lead and rhythm guitar" starts shifting toward a balance more rooted in rhythm than lead. Not saying it is a bad album or anything, I actually really like Wake Up! But the lead playing came across as super unimaginative there, for me. Not on all songs, just in some. Even the ones I like a lot, like "The Pleasure Song".

From there it just gets more bothersome. There are songs of course that stand out from this, where there is good lead playing and rhythmic playing all in one, it is something Manabe is good at. But the new balance he has found for it is kinda distasteful to me, especially considering the tone of the pillows' guitars these days and the very basic harmonies they tend to use in their songs.

lol

I got three reactions to a post I deleted within like 2 minutes after I posted it.

[quote="Tidusauron12"]As for style and flow, I agree that complexity doesn't have much to do with those - [i]necessarily [/i]anyways - in music. That was irrelevant.[/quote]Well, at the one hand it is easier to stick to just one style.
At the other hand, if you want to attain or retain the listeners attention and appraisal it can be difficult if the musician(s) is/are just holding on to one style. If you stick to one style, it's almost inevitable to improve this style (--> making it more complex) in order to attain/retain the listeners approval. (making one style more complex, may eventually lead to another style though)

Shifting styles, on the one hand doesn't neccesarily mean you have to make the music more engaging/complex to retain the listeners attention. On the other hand, for some musicians it can be difficult to shift gears. It acquires a different skill of playing that different style --> in an interesting way!). While you don't need much skill to turn to general pop music, it takes some skill to make that "general pop music" interesting. So, to the listener a new style doesn't neccesarily means more complexity, but for the artist it can be complex to change to a different style.

As for Sawao, it never looked like he had much difficulty going through stylistic changes. (Well, ofcourse it caused some tension within the band. But when the stylistic change occured, it occured in a good way.) For him, that was the way to attain more attention of a larger public. Because he hadn't got a wide fanbase in the earlier days, it wasn't really logical to continue the current style/formula. This is only one part of the story though, the stylistic changes didn't really occur because they wanted a larger public, rather it occured because the members wanted different styles of music. . .

In the last couple of years it seems there aren't major stylistic changes as in the past. (Only minor experiental stylistic changes; Primer Beat, Nobody Knows What Blooms). Almost as if the pillows settled down and are comfortable in this style (generic pop/rock). [b]They don't have much reason to change styles.[/b] They have attained a wide, large public, and there aren't any disputes, as far as I know, within the band about their current course.

I agree with everything you said here. Stylistics really doesn't have to do much with the complexity of the music itself. The pillows have music above the standard complexity in many of the styles they have tried out. This can be directly contributed to the members themselves, not the styles they tried out. Any complexity we experience comes from the compositional capabilities of the band as a whole (and whoever oversees the overall final product).

As for the pillows and the reasons for their evolution of style, that's a different topic altogether.

[quote="CDJapan"]"Comic Sonic" is an outro theme of the TV anime series "SKET DANCE."[/quote]

I think it's supposed to start being used for the ending theme on episode 2, so it shouldn't be long until it's available somewhere to watch.

Already bracing self for the awkward cartoon characters playing instruments episode..
At least the cover can't miss the mark as much as Ellegarden did. Probably.

Fist episode aired on the 7th, so it should just be a couple days until hear this thing, right?

Holy shit guys, 3 pages of discussion and the song hasn't even leaked out yet. Can't wait to read reactions once it does come out