[quote="sheerheartattack"]However, all that's important to me is that the current output of music isn't consistent with my tastes. I would like the pillows' music to be consistent with my tastes. I don't care [i]why[/i] such an inconsistency has arisen, I only care that it has.[/quote] Why so indifferent? You don't think the background of the finished product is interesting?

[quote="GoldenRhino"][quote="Ashinow"]Metric[/quote]

It would be pretty sweet if Sawao actually took some hints from Metric. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O_DOQ1hlneA[/quote]

Holy shit that's a good song. I need to listen to more of these guys.

I think that in the end, I think that almost all bands want to get to this point eventually-the point where they are selling out huge lives, selling tons of records, and making lots of money. You can call it selling out if you want, but that's the ultimate driving force. This is, after all, how they make their living. You don't set out into a job to make less money on purpose.

[quote="Ashinow"][quote="sheerheartattack"]However, all that's important to me is that the current output of music isn't consistent with my tastes. I would like the pillows' music to be consistent with my tastes. I don't care [i]why[/i] such an inconsistency has arisen, I only care that it has.[/quote] Why so indifferent? You don't think the background of the finished product is interesting?[/quote]

Not uninteresting...just irrelevant. If someone could provide a reliable source detailing such background, that would surely be interesting. It wouldn't have any relevance to the quality of the music, but it would be interesting. However, conjecturing as to what that background might be provides neither background nor relevance.

[quote="A.Fish"]I think that in the end, I think that almost all bands want to get to this point eventually-the point where they are selling out huge lives, selling tons of records, and making lots of money. You can call it selling out if you want, but that's the ultimate driving force. This is, after all, how they make their living. You don't set out into a job to make less money on purpose.[/quote] Also, what is "selling out"? What if you change your music to appeal to a wider audience, to the detriment of overall sales? What if an improvement in sales is only coincident to that? What if you change your music to appeal to a specific person or to a specific group of people? What if you changed your music as a request to a terminally ill child? What if you change your music to make more money, but you are indifferent between the music you are currently making and the music you would have otherwise made? What if you change your music to appeal to certain people within the band? To the producer? To the record label? What if you changed your music to make it easier to play? To make it harder to play, perhaps in an effort to impress people?

What is selling out and why is it relevant?

And what the hell is artistic integrity anyway? Is it what the artist [i]wants[/i] to do? Nobody does anything unless they want to do it. There are no exceptions to this rule. Or is it just what the artist would want to do if money were not an issue? What about all the aforementioned factors? Do we have to assume they are not issues as well?

Of course, you can speak in vague terms about "selling out," and most people will think they know what you mean, but unless you can nail it firmly to the wall, you're just bullshitting.

Sheer, some of the background to the pillows music directly relates to their music output. For example, their musical influences. We know who they were influenced by in their early years, bands from Britain and also some of Sawao's favorites, like Simon and Garfunkel. Their music didn't just happen that way. A lot of background is irrelevant, but not all of it. I think that's what Ashinow is trying to get at.

I don't really believe in selling out either-you've kind of reiterated what I just said with more words.

[quote="A.Fish"]Sheer, some of the background to the pillows music directly relates to their music output. For example, their musical influences. We know who they were influenced by in their early years, bands from Britain and also some of Sawao's favorites, like Simon and Garfunkel. Their music didn't just happen that way. A lot of background is irrelevant, but not all of it. I think that's what Ashinow is trying to get at.

I don't really believe in selling out either-you've kind of reiterated what I just said with more words.[/quote]

It's [i]all[/i] irrelevant, because [b]we already have the output[/b], which we can judge independently of its background.

That's my point.

The thing is, there are many different people with many different meanings of selling out. That goes for artistic integrity too. These terms are really undefined, so I hate using them for the most part, even though I did refer to "musical integrity" before. That integrity seems to be more based on my (the fan's) understanding of an artist's output; what I believe makes him or her an excellent artist might not be how said artist views themselves.

A good example here is Weezer. There are a lot of parallels between the pillows and Weezer I believe, as I'm a huge fan of both bands. If you remember 2009's Raditude, people thought it was absolutely ludicrous that Rivers Cuomo collaborated with members of All American Rejects and Lil' Wayne, myself included. This was regarded by many to have totally destroyed their artistic integrity. But Rivers didn't see it that way at all. He thought this was his strength and that he was sincerely doing something he was proud of.

Even look at Beverley Hills from 2005. Another song everyone thought Weezer sold out on because it was so simple and totally different from something like Pinkerton, and it was their biggest hit ever. Rivers was vindicated and has only shown hints of his former songwriting ability over the next 3 albums. Rivers wants people to like his music, he desperately does. Why do you think he shelled up after Pinkerton and took such a drastic turn with the band's music when they got back together? I think a similar thing has happened to Sawao, albeit not as extreme as Rivers' "(in)evolution". Sawao's earlier output in the late 90's is considered to be superb, but it wasn't commercially successful. Now that he is writing music that the masses love, why should he stop, even if it is deemed by some to be at a lower level of quality? he might as will give the majority of the people what they want.

The point I'm trying to make is that neither artist "sold out" for the money, they both just want to be recognized and remembered.

For those who just bumped in this tread or still don't know if this thread is about hamburgers or about background or about output, here is a summary:

[quote="Revol"]What do you think has led to this inevolution of the band?[/quote] That's the topic of this thread. Before we're able to discuss this, we have to agree that there indeed is a degenaration of the band in terms of overal quality in music. We agree on this point, except for few, very few people on this board. However, different views exist, about when their music went downhill, and at what speed it ran downhill.
I heard IM lost "some" members due to disappointment of PL and GD : [quote="GR"]
But yeah, there was no doubt some criticism over Penalty Life and Good Dreams. Their COMPARATIVE mediocrity is a reason we don't have thejedipunk anymore.[/quote][quote="Joyeuse"] I stop listening to the pillows for a few years
[/quote] I assume more people left this board, because of this reason. Correct me if my assumption is wrong.

The perceived degeneration started with PL and GD. But current members seem to like most of the tracks on these albums, if I'm not mistaken.
Then we got My Foot, which was generally received well and still is a solid album for most people here.

Then we got WUx3 /Avex Trax/ Pied Piper - OOPARTS - Horn Again. (you may or may not include My Foot in this list)
The big majority agrees that these are the lesser albums of the pillows. What makes these albums different from the other albums?(Output) How come they sound different?(Background)
In other words, how did the albums turned out like this? That's actually the question we have to try to answer in this thread.

Mare, Son Goshin and A. Fish all made about the same point: it's not for the money as much it is for the fame. Or in other words: [quote="Son Goshin"]The point I'm trying to make is that [the pillows didn't] "sold out" for the money, [they] just want to be recognized and remembered. [by more people][/quote] It aren't really facts, like Sheer like to see, but it makes a reasonable explanation in my opinion.

So what we need in this tread is more reliable source detailing such background. I think Mare is on it.

[size=65]Edit: lol wut? [quote]Last edited by sheerheartattack on Wed Feb 09, 2011 12:34 am, [b]edited 30 times in total.[/size][/b][/quote] Hahaha: [quote]Last edited by sheerheartattack on Wed Feb 09, 2011 3:01 am, edited 69 times in total. [/quote]

[quote="sheerheartattack"][quote="Marekenshin"]@Sheer from earlier: Just because his songs HAD a blend of those styles before doesn't mean he set out with that as his GOAL. You see? That wasn't too hard.[/quote]

I find it utterly perplexing how you have somehow read a rhetorical quip to mean that I did not understand what you initially meant.

I even gave you the opportunity to save face by providing another quip shortly thereafter.

[quote="Marekenshin"]More circumstantial evidence pertaining to a moot point.[/quote]

And this is further evidence as to why I think discussions of whether a band has sold out are irrelevant.[/quote]

I think that while it's a moot point either way, it's an interesting concept to discuss, personally. It's interesting to see the reasoning (how/why) of people who believe a band has sold out.

Also, it makes sense to respond to tone with like tone, and as such my quip to your quip does not mean that I did not understand that you're not a retard and did in fact understand what I meant.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mqaTy3XA4v0

according to this video,

"If fun things happen, I write songs about fun things. If things that bother me happen, I write about those. When I end up with more than 10 songs I release an album"


LOL

LOL, wow. Well, in his defense, pretty much all the pillows' albums have been a collection of songs as opposed to all the songs tying together to have a common theme or tell a story.

Looks like some interesting questions are being answered in this interview. Why must they tease us by having the questions in English??!?!?!?! Damniit I wish I knew what they were saying. Did you pick up on anything else informative Zorahk?

[quote="zorahk"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mqaTy3XA4v0

according to this video,

"If fun things happen, I write songs about fun things. If things that bother me happen, I write about those. When I end up with more than 10 songs I release an album"


LOL[/quote]

is there any other way to write music?

I'm kind of with Camio on this one.

Unless you're writing a concept album, you're pretty much just writing what you feel like writing.

I think the lulz come from the fact that we expect musical artists who release albums to be somewhat discerning about their own output. We expect the output from a band to represent the best of what they've created - not every single song idea that entered their heads.

We expect "Out of a few extra songs, Serious Plan made the cut for WU3x" rather than "I wrote Serious Plan, so now it's on WU3x."

Exactly, I'm not disagreeing with writing what you feel into your songs.

I just thought the 10曲以上になったらアルバムを出す
line was hilarious.