[quote="Camio"][quote="sheerheartattack"]It doesn't matter for shit [i]why[/i] a band makes music, and there is no provable correlation between a band's intent and its ability to make good music.[/quote]

of course there's no provable correlation in your concept of good music. Logistics are irrelevant because you cannot define good music enough to begin to draw parallels.

HOWEVER, under the assumption that you consider music that has persisted over generations to fall somewhere near the "good" category, I can name a few artists whom made music simply because music was all they knew and ended up creating something timeless. Simon & Garfunkel, Operation Ivy, Red Hot Chili Peppers, Ludwig Von Beethoven, Bob Dylan, Jimi Hedrix. Also some artists that made music as a result of a desire for social change Rancid, The Clash, The Sex Pistols, Black Flag, Minor Threat. Artists who wrote music as an outlet for their feelings, Nirvana, Green Day, Social Distortion. The list goes on and on, even Sawao repeats the theme of "all I do is play music" over and over in Discharge. I cant think of many bands that made music under the intent of becoming famous and ended up with classics... maybe Oasis and The Monkeys?

it boggles my mind how someone could take such a suffocatingly rational perspective on something so full of mysticism as the creation of music.

of course WHY we make music effects how good our music is. if your intention is to make money and get laid making music why attempt to make something original or challenging? If you look around a little bit you can find the sounds of the times that are getting people laid and making them money. It seems pretty stupid that if ass and cash were my goals that I wouldn't waste my time trying to be original and just go with what works. There are plenty of bands out there making good money and getting ass for playing run-of-the-mill sensitive boy rock if you haven't noticed. If you haven't I suggest you go out more.

of course it's always easier to go the "oh I put a stick in this drawer and closed it, therefore I cant prove that there's a stick in the drawer." route.[/quote]

Very little of that makes any sense at all. First of all, how do you know why those bands made music? Because they said so? I'm guessing "to make money" isn't the best PR move, and the success of one's musical career is 90% PR, 10% music.

And what the fuck kind of statement is this:

[quote]it boggles my mind how someone could take such a suffocatingly rational perspective on something so full of mysticism as the creation of music. [/quote]

Really? I mean, [i]really?[/i] Wow.

[quote]if your intention is to make money and get laid making music why attempt to make something original or challenging?[/quote]

What does this even mean? If your intention is that you love music, you also have no incentive to make something original or challenging.

Okay, I take back the previous quote. This is the most...unusual sentence in your post:

[quote]of course it's always easier to go the "oh I put a stick in this drawer and closed it, therefore I cant prove that there's a stick in the drawer." route.[/quote]

It's hard for me to even attack your post point by point, because I'm not quite certain that there are any.

LOL, that last quote sounds like Camio ripped it off from Discharge.

[quote="sheerheartattack"]Really? I mean, [i]really?[/i] Wow.[/quote]
This reminds me of my English III teacher. She's so~~ kawaii desu!

[quote="sheerheartattack"]
Very little of that makes any sense at all. First of all, how do you know why those bands made music? Because they said so? I'm guessing "to make money" isn't the best PR move, and the success of one's musical career is 90% PR, 10% music.[/quote]

words are cheap, you can tell by what they do. Plus several of the bands I named were adamantly against selling out and broke up even if they were about to make it big.

[quote="sheerheartattack"]
What does this even mean? If your intention is that you love music, you also have no incentive to make something original or challenging.[/quote]

if your intention is to express yourself you have incentive to make something original. if your intention is to innovate you have incentive to do something challenging, if your intention is to change society you have incentive to inspire, if you love music you make music that you love, if you want to get money you want to make music that sells, if you want to get laid you want to make music like the music girls like. etc. Only certain intentions lead down a route that could result in something original. And some for example desire for money and sex. do not.

i didnt think it required that much of an explanation.

You have a rather naive view of the realities of musicianship, Camio. This may come as a shock to you, but it's actually possible to aim for any combination of those things and still make a shitton of money. Additionally, just because you have a certain intent when you set about making music doesn't mean you'll see the desired result, ESPECIALLY if you're going to be some annoying bastard who would break your band up just because you're going to see commercial success. The idea of "selling out" is one of the dumbest things I've ever heard. If those bands were really breaking up over not wanting to become mainstream, why didn't they just, I don't know, refuse to sign on to mainstream labels and stay on small ones or something?

Also, there's no way in hell you're really going to have much of a chance of achieving most of those goals if you have like 2 fans, both of which are in your band.

[quote="Marekenshin"]You have a rather naive view of the realities of musicianship, Camio. [/quote]

this coming from a guy using SOUNDCLOUD for his band. I may have skimmed the rest of your post, but I couldnt take it seriously.

Soundcould does suck dude. I've been telling you to use YouTube.

Oh, Camio. The point of those songs on Soundcloud was to record something rough that we could show people and get feedback on, which has been successful. Some of us don't want to put really shitty recordings up on our MySpace as a representation of our band's ability to write original music, you know?






I'm sorry, was that too harsh?

Nahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.

[quote="Camio"][quote="Marekenshin"]You have a rather naive view of the realities of musicianship, Camio. [/quote]

this coming from a guy using SOUNDCLOUD for his band. I may have skimmed the rest of your post, but I couldnt take it seriously.[/quote]
You gauge someone's understanding of musicianship based on where they upload their music?

[img]http://www.bbc.co.uk/bradford/content/images/2007/02/26/edith_bowman_465x370.jpg[/img]

[quote="Camio"][quote="Marekenshin"]You have a rather naive view of the realities of musicianship, Camio. [/quote]

this coming from a guy using SOUNDCLOUD for his band. I may have skimmed the rest of your post, but I couldnt take it seriously.[/quote]

Well, this is probably the most ironic post on IM. I mean, this kind of ends the discussion right here, with Camio clearly destroying any semblance of a point he may have ever had, but I will proceed to demonstrate why SoundCloud is infinitely better than, say, MySpace. Camio is obviously ignorant of what SoundCloud even is, and he has apparently mistaken it with some random uploading website, rather than the popular community of amateur musicians that it is. It is the number one music-sharing choice among musicians who actually know what they are doing.

All I really have to point to is the MySpace player. MySpace player has got to be the worst piece of shit ever invented since RealPlayer, which you probably use as well. That should immediately end the discussion, but if you want to read more, go [url=http://www.reddit.com/r/WeAreTheMusicMakers/comments/csb2e/why_soundcloud/]here[/url]. All in all, MySpace is quite possibly the worst places to upload your music, whereas SoundCloud is the exact opposite. Yes, professional musicians upload to MySpace to take advantage of the audience (who uses it exclusively to follow professional musicians). However, if you're not a professional musician, then you have absolutely no reason to use MySpace unless you have friends there.

whatever happened to talking to people in your real life about your music hanging out after the show?

someone said that success in music was 90% PR and 10% music, how's that PR through Soundcloud working out for yah?

I guess if I was more into soft rock and wanted to play lounge shows with people scratching their chin saying "hmmm yes, oh watch that hook, that was clever" soundcloud would help me get my songs to that point. But since I play for idealists and punk rockers who dont like over thought music, myspace is better. But I'll Keep soundcloud in mind when I burn out and want to write old man music, but since I want to play my music for people and have fun I'll stick with myspace.

Right...so, now you're telling us that our opinions are flawed because we don't prioritize success and making money enough, because we use a website preferred by professionals over one preferred by juveniles. Got it.

[quote="Camio"] But since I play for idealists and punk rockers who dont like over thought music, myspace is better.[/quote]

It sounded like pop rock to me....

[quote="Camio"]
I guess if I was more into soft rock and wanted to play lounge shows with people scratching their chin saying "hmmm yes, oh watch that hook, that was clever" soundcloud would help me get my songs to that point. But since I play for idealists and punk rockers who dont like over thought music, myspace is better. But I'll Keep soundcloud in mind when I burn out and want to write old man music, but since I want to play my music for people and have fun I'll stick with myspace.[/quote]

This doesn't even make any kind of sense. *Starts playing FRUSTRATION IN MY BLOOD*