[quote="Spike"]My point was simply that the majority seem to enjoy Horn Again, which means one of two things. Either for one reason or another, there's some flawed opinions and negativity floating about that is clouding peoples judgement of the album, or two, that everyone who likes it is a chump and the people who don't are the ones with a highly evolved musical sense.[/quote]

So do you think HA really IS that much better than the earlier albums?

Again, are you making the argument that higher sales = better album? Trying to get this clear.

[quote="Jomei"]

So do you think HA really IS that much better than the earlier albums?

Again, are you making the argument that higher sales = better album? Trying to get this clear.[/quote]

Better? No. If Gloomy Night and Split Emotion were on this album in place of Sad Fad Love and Doggie Howl then it'd be a harder decision.

I'm saying that album sales are only part of it. Producing an album that is designed to exploit certain music trends solely for the sake of making a profit through radio hits is what gives sales charts a bad rap. But they can be useful in judging an albums quality. A number of supportive opinions + good sales, is better than crap sales but a niche group saying "it's the greatest thing ever". No matter what kind of music you make, somebody, somewhere is gonna like it. So strong sales + strong positive criticisim, I think, is harder to gain than just impressing a small group of people.


tl;dr
[img]http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1244235/Hosted%20Files/sheeple.png[/img]

This discussion again? We don't need sales to judge the music. We have the music itself, which can be objectively and independently analyzed.

It's like you're studying a cabbage to learn about a potato that's right in front of you.

[quote="sheerheartattack"]This discussion again? We don't need sales to judge the music. We have the music itself, which can be objectively and independently analyzed.

It's like you're studying a cabbage to learn about a potato that's right in front of you.[/quote]


Exactly. The only thing I was curious about was WHY it's selling better than Runners High. My guess is that there's just a lot more promotion going on, and the songs are aimed towards a much larger audience than Runners High and the rest of the late 90's albums were.

Right. Some were puzzled by the high sales of Horn Again compared to the pretty mediocre sales of albums many of us consider to be much better musically. Spike made some comments to which I think Tidus responded very well. See his post on the previous page.

Now I'm just trying to get Spike to answer if he thinks more popular = more good, because his posts seem to implicitly rest on that notion.

The band obviously has much better marketing than they did in years past. I want to say their new music is also more accessible, but then again everything they released from 1997 onward is pretty easy to enjoy.

Two statements about the accessibility of the pillows albums:

[quote="ThinlineTele"] I want to say their new music is also more accessible, but then again everything they released from 1997 onward is pretty easy to enjoy.[/quote]
[quote="Tidus"]I'd go far enough to say that there are probably a lot of Japanese fans that do enjoy albums like Pied Piper more than albums such as Living Field... knowing how the casual music listener goes, that's a pretty safe bet.[/quote]

I consider myself as a casual listener, and I found Living Field in particular highly accessible. Heck, aren't we all casual listeners? Tidus may be an exceptional case though, in regards to his background with music.

I agree with Thinline that most work of the pillows are accessible, the biggest obstacle you have to pass is probably Sawao's voice. So I'd say Good Dreams isn't really accessible, but Living Field and say PML are quite accessible yeah. (so the statement: their [b]music[/b] now is easier to listen to, doesn't hold much water for me.)

I think it may be hard to get popular, but once you are popular it's quite easy to stay popular. If you know what it is that made you popular, just do that again. In the case of the pillows it's quite obvious, there aren't any big changes of direction in musical style since, say, My Foot.

But that's all said and done already: [quote="Son Goshi"]After My Foot's release appears to be when the pillows really hit the mainstream in Japan. What about the 16 years before that? Moderate success obviously, but from my memory they never topped the Oricon charts as they do now.[/quote]

I don't think most of us are casual listeners in the way you'd describe the typical music buyer. The fact that we're here debating this topic is evident of that much.

[quote="Spike"][quote="Jomei"]I know what your point is, but you wouldn't make the same argument about, say, Justin Bieber, would you?[/quote]

I would for the age group his music is aimed at.[/quote] Perhaps the pillows new sound (Sawao's childish vocals/poppiness) appeals to a preteen audience. Who is buying the records these days?

You get kind of a jesus juice vibe from the pillows newer records. It's like they're trying to sound younger than they ever did.

[quote="Jomei"]I don't think most of us are casual listeners in the way you'd describe the typical music buyer. The fact that we're here debating this topic is evident of that much.[/quote] Yeah, I was just thinking about that. What I actually meant is that I was a casual listener when I got into the pillows (for the first time). I don't really consider me as casual as I was then, but that only reinforces my point. It's easy to get into the earlier music of the pillows (White Incarnation, Living Field, PML), even for casual listeners. But yeah, it al comes down to how you define "casual listener". If you say it's the people who most of the time listen to the popular music, music that is "hip". Then well, yeah, the pillows are more accessible than they were before.

How would you describe the typical music buyer?

[quote="rockman240"]Perhaps the pillows new sound (Sawao's childish vocals/poppiness) appeals to a preteen audience. Who is buying the records these days?

You get kind of a jesus juice vibe from the pillows newer records. It's like they're trying to sound younger than they ever did.[/quote]

That's true. For example, the intro to Your Order, it's the main reason I dislike that song.

Hmmm. . .
It's about three weeks ago that the pillows, who are for most of us I guess, our favorite band released their new album.
But to be honest, I haven't really listened to it for quite some days now.
And, frankly I don't really feel to do so either.

So my question to you is:
How much have you listened to it lately?

[size=85]On a side note, I've listened quite a lot to White Incarnation the last two-three weeks or so,
and I'll have to say . . .It's hard to imagine that those fellows on WI are the same of HA.
Not meant in a bad way though. But that sound is like almost completly different, especially regarding the vocals.
What happened to Sawao's voice on the way?[/size]

I listened to it a fair deal the week or so after it came out...

but now I'm listening to Leo Imai and Hinto.

Funny, I've been listening to WI too lately but I still listen to HA frequently.
I've also been refreshing on the whole discography. Only, with the headphone jack slightly loose so that I can hear particular recorded tracks with more emphasis. Like with Trip Dancer, I always knew it had a piano track but I didn't notice how much of it was in there until after hearing it clearly this way. It's become interesting deconstructing some other tracks too.

Actually listened to a good chunk today after not listening for about a week. I've been downloading a lot of Ash's discography lately so there's been a lot for me to digest. The new album has kind of been getting pushed back now.