[quote="clouds"]dictionary.com mentioned this:
the sounds produced by singers or musical instruments

seems pretty general to me. I think that would cover this song, too... and the noise genre...


and a whole lot of bands...[/quote]

No, WordNet mentioned that. Of course, you realize that is not what we are talking about, just as we are not talking about "the cry of the hounds." The fact that of all the definitions, one must look to damn near the end to find a definition general enough to meet your terms is kind of a hint that you're wrong.

You want a fucking argument? Here. (I don't normally do this, and I'm lucky that my blood pressure is naturally very low, otherwise I wouldn't survive this post sdlkfjdslk)

Art can be judged objectively, but that's not really the point. Art is about emotions. Emotions are pretty much the least objective things ever lsdfjldsk. If it doesn't click with you on the emotional level, then it doesn't click. But that doesn't mean it sucks.

When I said "understanding of the genre," I meant that you can appreciate something without having that emotional connection to it. And yes, that is objective reasoning, but that's not all of what art is. For example, I'm not much of a fan of Da Vinci, but I can appreciate his work and I don't say it sucks just because it doesn't reach me emotionally.*

And by saying something sucks, you're not just saying that you don't like it, you're saying that it's bad.

You did imply that you didn't think it was art. "You're abusing the term music." As well as pulling up internet dictionaries to try to exclude this song from the bounds of music. (Because internet dictionaries decide those things for us in life.)

I'm not wasting any more time on this argument unless you give me a really good reason.


*And the reason I'm whining about all of this isn't to get you to like clouds's song. That's not happening, and I don't expect it to happen. What I'm trying to do is to get you to open your mind a little bit to a different genre of music. And now I really don't know why I'm doing that, because I honestly don't give a shit if you do or not. Christ.

For the record, I didn't say clouds is abusing the word "music". I said he's abusing the term "noise music."

I wouldn't go so far as to say "that's not music". But I think it's really stretching the term.

but remember, everyone...
[size=150]"There's this thing called being so open-minded your brains drop out."[/size]

In my eyes, "it is all that remains", is an attempt to do some really off the wall obscure chaotic shit, that can barely be classified as anything beyond "noisy shit"...and then somehow try to be all cool and avant-garde about.

"Get it, guys? It's [i]noise[/i] music. Pretty awesome, eh?"
-"No, and no."
"Hah. Well I guess that goes to show how much more elite I am."

Here, clouds. Do what you wanna do. Do your whole noise schtick. But just as some constructive criticism...try to put some soul into it. Don't misunderstand this post as "I HATE THINGS THAT ARE CHAOTIC AND DON'T HAVE A RECOGNIZABLE MELODY!". No way. I totally appreciate most Aphex Twin's totally caustic work, as well as some Venetian Snares. And I don't want to try to redefine a genre here, but....it seems like "noise music" shouldn't just be about "noise". "Noise" is only the half of it.

But yeah. Put some soul into it, man. And Kyoko, stop flipping a bitch every time says something like: "Art has limits", "Music has limits", and "I don't like clouds that much."

-I can't believe you couldn't see any soul in that were you even listening
-he'snotdoingitbecauseit'scool,hecouldmakeotherkindsofmusicwellandhehasinthepast
-you guyz say stoopid stuff 2 often to not bitch at you 24/7 lolz

EDIT: Wait a minute, guys.
[size=200][color=red]I TAKE ALL OF THIS BACK, CLOUDS IT THE MOST FUCKING ELITE PERSON IN THE FUCKING UNIVERSE

FUCK[/color][/size]

EDIT #2: Do you guys realize how ridiculous you sound with this "art has limits" shit? As far as anyone should be concerned, as long as someone puts something together for it to be emotionally pleasing, it's art. It's just sooooo fucking pretentious to act like certain things can't be art because they don't fit into dictionary.com's definition.

[quote="Kyoko"]I'm not wasting any more time on this argument unless you give me a really good reason.


*And the reason I'm whining about all of this isn't to get you to like clouds's song. That's not happening, and I don't expect it to happen. What I'm trying to do is to get you to open your mind a little bit to a different genre of music. And now I really don't know why I'm doing that, because I honestly don't give a shit if you do or not. Christ.[/quote]

1) Cloud's post featuring a link to his..."song", followed by a discussion of what "music" and "noise music" are...it's difficult. Because I'm not really sure if cloud's work would really be the best example. Thus, people flame up and say "That's bullshit, and not art."

I'd compare it to...if I recorded 50 seconds of me playing a few powerchords, with a backing track of me tapping a beat on my desk, posting the recording on a classical music forum (the members of which only listen to classical) and saying: "HEY! THIS IS THE ROCK AND ROLL MUSIC." It's unfair to the genre of rock. Seriously. It gives people...a false impression, perhaps.

Kyoko, question: What is the limit of art for you? A kid splattering some paint on a rock. Is that art? What about music? Strumming a dissonant chord with an unsteady beat behind it. Is that music?

ooopz that post wasn't there when i started my edit lolzzzz

But yeah, basically, if the kid splatters paint on a rock with intentions for it to be emotionally pleasing, it is art.

Edit: To address your second point, that's not really what clouds did. He recorded as noise song and called it a noise song.

Let's just all lean back in our chairs and drink a nice big cup of shut the fuck up.




Srsly tho, we don't need this.

[quote="Blank"]Let's just all lean back in our chairs and drink a nice big cup of shut the fuck up.




Srsly tho, we don't need this.[/quote]

THEY STARTED IT

THIS IS NOT MY FAULT AT ALL

(except for the parts where it was my fault)

(i'm a bit of a sucker for these kind of arguments :3)

Perspective, everyone's is different.

"art is whatever the artist spits, according to kurt schwitter or however you spell his name.

If you don't believe that every emotion and human behavioral reaction doesn't have an objective reasoning to it, you surely are living in the dark ages. There is nothing that can't be explained by logic and reasoning in an objective manner. Period.

I understand your ire, and how you lack the ability to control it, Kyoko, and I even understand your argument. I just plain think you're wrong, and that's all there is to it.

Finally, remember, you were the first person to ever mention the word "art," Kyoko. I stated it was not music, which is a clearly defined thing. It would be the exact same thing if I presented you with a television and called it a soda. Seriously, I dare you to argue that just because a television is not within the definitions of a soda in the dictionary, that means that statement is utter bullshit. I [i]dare[/i] you.

[quote="Blank"]Let's just all lean back in our chairs and drink a nice big cup of shut the fuck up.




Srsly tho, we don't need this.[/quote]

On a side note, I actually enjoy this...and no one's [i]making[/i] anyone read it.

[quote="sheerheartattack"]yawn[/quote]
Well that goes into the conceptual perception of reality.
If you had you own view of the world, why couldn't a television be a soda?
Of course, you'd be considered insane, but if you want to see the world through your own twist, why not?
Maybe I'm going a little further than you meant, but still.
Art is garbage to someone, garbage is art to someone.
I don't see the real art in Picasso, but I understand that it is an art form, even though I prefer realistic.

[quote="Utsuseru"]
If your mind was totally open, why couldn't a television be a soda?[/quote]

Ifyertryintobeapretentiousassholesaywhat!

[quote="Blank"][quote="Utsuseru"]
If your mind was totally open, why couldn't a television be a soda?/quote]

Ifyertryintobeapretentiousassholesaywhat![/quote][/quote]

Pretentious-Claiming or demanding a position of distinction or merit, especially when unjustified.

I don't see anything that fits that in my post

Okay, that first point, what the fuck. Yes, I understand that there are chemical reactions in the brain that cause these sensations, but don't you dare pretend to act like anyone can understand why it feels a certain way to be alive.

And don't you go whining about how I can't control my bitchyness tonight, or I'll have you answer to my falling estrogen and progesterone levels triggering the lining of my uterus to shed.

Music is an art. Your last point is ridiculous. Televisions are not sodas. Music is art. Televisions are not sodas. Music is art. And are you trying to say it's not music but it's art, so it's a bunch of sounds coming together to form art? Which, uh sounds like it's describing uhhhhm MUSIC MAYBE?!

Editing to include quote by this kid named Emil Cioran!!!! "What surrounds us we endure better for giving it a name--and moving on. But to embrace a thing by defnition, is to reject that thing, to render it insiipid and superfolous, to annihilate it."