Robert Johnson. Enough said, I guess.

Thread needs more Scoobie. Do, that is.

Here's proof: http://youtube.com/watch?v=m3RT-ZNkGLk

Sorry to keep hammering this idea, but the use of the word J-Rock, while most people will understand it...goes a bit further than the name.

If I mentioned J-Rock to moderately well-informed adult (who doesn't really listen to Japanese rock in the first place), it would be really easy for them to make the assumptions of:
-Hyper anime/cartoonish feel.
-Crazy hair and makeup.
-Over-the-top.
-Not completely serious.
-Not really comparable to American rock.

While people in the Japanese rock-listening community may just use "J-Rock" as a synonym for "Japanese rock", there's a lot more to it when you use it outside of said community, whether you realize it or not.

Wouldn't it be so cool if more people could start listening to Japanese music? Japan has really embraced Western music, from R&B to the Stones. Calling Japaese rock "J-Rock" is creating another wall of separation.

Perhaps the point would be even clearer with the term "J-Pop".
Just think of it...J-pop. Images IMMEDIATELY come to your mind. Bright outfits, happy near-chipmunk vocals, bright and cheery melodies, lots of..."super kawaii". But we all know that it'd be a shame to assume that all Japanese pop fits into that stereotype.

That's it. 1) The terms promote stereotypes of music people generally just don't know much about...2) It creates another division between to forms of music that really aren't so separate in the first place.

PLEASE RECONSIDER.

You're dumb.

[quote="GoldenRhino"]
Wouldn't it be so cool if more people could start listening to Japanese music? Japan has really embraced Western music, from R&B to the Stones. Calling Japaese rock "J-Rock" is creating another wall of separation.
[/quote]
What's so great about Japanese rock apart from every other country's rock music? There's plenty of great rock acts in the world, and most of the people on this forum could care less because they don't come from Japan. It pisses me the hell off. I don't understand why Japanese rock gets SO much attention compared to every other country on Earth; well in reality, I do, but it's still stupid.

If someone says something along the lines of "Well it's innovative!" For the most part, it's not, honestly. Some of it's good, some of it's bad. There are some innovative bands, but if it was so spanking brand new, it would have a genre to its own instead of just "JAPANESE ROCK" or "JAPANESE INDIE". There are other bands that sound just as good in other countries, but most people go "lolthat'snotcool/good " when, in fact, if the band was named something like "KYOTO BASS BAND EXPLOSION" you'd be creaming your pants over it. Hell, I bet a lot of the people here who hate bands like Panic At the Disco, Fall Out Boy, emocrapetc would be posting youtube links of the same exact bands if they sang in Japanese as opposed to English.

I'm not saying that all of you do this, but I know that there are certain members, and tons of other people who do. Do you enjoy Japanese pop but utterly condemn pop in English? Think about it, God damn it! It's the same shit that's being marketed as pop EVERYWHERE else, just in Japanese!

Next time you turn on your Number Girl, Zazen Boys, etc listen to the music more carefully, and ask yourself.. would you listen to the same thing if it was in English? Spanish? Russian? I think you get my point.

h20r0we: firstly, tl;dr. secondly, what i did read seemed like you had a good sense of what's going on.

i'm just wondering where mare is righ tnow.. is he on a plane to nipon-land?

and not dizzid but the guy who posted before dizzid whose name is really weird: robert johnson is some pretty interesting stuff. i have to second that for anyone who wants to hear some (delta) blues.

John Frusciante
The Cure
Nick Cave & The Bad Seeds
Merzbow
Megadeth
System of a Down
Portugal. The Man, I cannot stress this more.

that's what I'm listening to right now.

Watermelon Man and the Fried Chicken Experience

[quote="h2orowe"]
1)What's so great about Japanese rock apart from every other country's rock music? I don't understand why Japanese rock gets SO much attention compared to every other country on Earth; well in reality, I do, but it's still stupid.

2)Hell, I bet a lot of the people here who hate bands like Panic At the Disco, Fall Out Boy, emocrapetc would be posting youtube links of the same exact bands if they sang in Japanese as opposed to English.

3)Do you enjoy Japanese pop but utterly condemn pop in English? Think about it, God damn it! It's the same shit that's being marketed as pop EVERYWHERE else, just in Japanese!

4)Next time you turn on your Number Girl, Zazen Boys, etc listen to the music more carefully, and ask yourself.. would you listen to the same thing if it was in English? Spanish? Russian? I think you get my point.[/quote]

1)I personally think that Japan is home to a lot of great rock music. Some is more generic while other acts are REALLY out there (Melt Banana, Afrirampo, Polysics, anyone? And no, saying "Polysics are just Japanese Devo" is wrong). So what's wrong with wishing people would expand their musical horizons and actually try to listen to this stuff? It's just like: "Hey guys, there's some good music over there! Let's check it out!" I'm not fellating Japan, understand that.

2) Of course there are Japanese equivalents of shitty American bands (Panic!, Angels and Airwaves, Fall Out Boy)...that's why I choose not to listen to Ellegarden (Yeah, I said it.)

3) I don't utterly enjoy Japanese pop and condemn English pop. I like...uh...Ringo Shiina and Aiko...maybe some Change & Aska. That's all I can think of off the top of my head. As for English, there's a bit I enjoy (Gwen's Stefani's "Luxurious"<3) but it's just not a genre I'm way into. I know there's a ton of marketted crap in Japan just as there is in America. They're subject to the same bullshit. Again, NOWHERE did I claim any superiority between the two.

4) People get different things out of certain sounds. I happen to like the sound of the Japanese language, and the language itself I'm currently studying. I think it's fun to look at lyrics and see how they're translated into English. It's a sound I enjoy.
I'd rather hear Mukai Shutoku of Zazen Boys shout out "U-SO-DA-RA-KE!!!" than a Spanish person shout out "MU-CHAS-MEN-TI-RAS!!!" Call me a biased prick, but I see no problem with it.
And I won't doubt that there's a certain "cool factor" that can easily get people interested in Japanese music. But it's the solid quality of the bands you find that'll make you stay.

"J-Rock" still marginalizes the music as an art form.

I'm gonna be honest, Grey: it only marginalizes it if you as an individual marginalize it yourself after hearing it. In a sense, it just refers to all Japanese rock as a nationality and not a genre. I try not to use it, but it's no use getting your panties in a snit over it.

And the reason why it's not used for Jamaican rock is because that's just Reggae.

[quote="GoldenRhino"]Hypersensitive criticism of genre-labeling, specifically that of J-Rock.[/quote]

Oh come on, you just realized the flaw of every single genre classification in the world. Don't think that it's exclusive to J-Rock. In fact, take your assumptions and you just described the assumptions many people have about glam rock (including the last assumption).

Secondly, you people have to stop acting like there are certain criteria for a genre label. It can be based on anything - location, feel, lyrical content...any distinguishing characteristic, really. That's why most, if not all, bands are not limited to a single genre. They are broad definitions, rather than individual descriptions. They [i]are[/i] stereotypes, and with the incredibly broad amount of artists in the world, they are very helpful in classifying music, whether we like it or not.

The "Country Western" genre denotes music originating from the rural western United States. The "Christian" genre denotes the lyrical content of the music, rather than having anything to do with the music. The "Indie" genre denotes the lack of a major record label. "J-Rock" denotes rock music from Japan. While each of these labels might come with arbitrary stereotypes, they come with broad implications that do not necessarily apply to every band under the genre - let alone the majority.

[quote="h2orowe"]What's so great about Japanese rock apart from every other country's rock music? There's plenty of great rock acts in the world, and most of the people on this forum could care less because they don't come from Japan. It pisses me the hell off. I don't understand why Japanese rock gets SO much attention compared to every other country on Earth; well in reality, I do, but it's still stupid.[/quote]
There are plenty of great rock bands from around the world, and I listen to tons of English language music in addition to Japanese rock bands. Japan's good rock bands get attention here because they don't get any attention elsewhere. Who outside of this forum, Keikaku, and Distortional Addict listens to any of these guys? The way you're talking, you would think there was some sort of Japanese rock epidemic sweeping the world.

[quote]If someone says something along the lines of "Well it's innovative!" For the most part, it's not, honestly. Some of it's good, some of it's bad. There are some innovative bands, but if it was so spanking brand new, it would have a genre to its own instead of just "JAPANESE ROCK" or "JAPANESE INDIE".[/quote]

Japan has tons of innovative noise rock, avant garde, psychedelic, and experimental artists - that's where the innovation is. Just ask catfish what he listens to. Unfortunately, I'm not too familiar with these bands yet.

I don't think Japan inherently does stuff better. I hate J-Pop just as much as American pop music, and most mainstream Japanese bands are total crap. But Japan has a vibrant indie rock scene that rocks considerably harder than most of the indie "rock" bands in the States right now. Zazen Boys sound way different from anything in the US right now, Number Girl is a great fusion of post-hardcore ala Fugazi, Pixies influence, and traditional Japanese music. Sparta Locals are/were one of the only revival bands to do justice to the legacy started by Television so long ago. Ging Nang Boyz are probably the most energetic and creative punk band in the world right now. Cornelius is one of the major innovators in modern popular music. Luminous Orange is how shoegaze should be done. I could go on.


[quote]There are other bands that sound just as good in other countries, but most people go "lolthat'snotcool/good " when, in fact, if the band was named something like "KYOTO BASS BAND EXPLOSION" you'd be creaming your pants over it. Hell, I bet a lot of the people here who hate bands like Panic At the Disco, Fall Out Boy, emocrapetc would be posting youtube links of the same exact bands if they sang in Japanese as opposed to English.[/quote]

I judge each band individual, and give no weight to their country of origin. If it was the Japanese version of Fallout Boy, I would still hate it.

[quote]I'm not saying that all of you do this, but I know that there are certain members, and tons of other people who do. Do you enjoy Japanese pop but utterly condemn pop in English? Think about it, God damn it! It's the same shit that's being marketed as pop EVERYWHERE else, just in Japanese! [/quote]

Yup, I pretty much hate glossy pop regardless of the country of origin. Shiina Ringo is about the only exception that comes to mind, but her solo music can be so "out there" that it isn't a fair comparison, anyway.

[quote]Next time you turn on your Number Girl, Zazen Boys, etc listen to the music more carefully, and ask yourself.. would you listen to the same thing if it was in English? Spanish? Russian? I think you get my point.[/quote]

Yes, I would. I don't like them just because they're Japanese, but because they're great bands. Besides, didn't you say that you had never even heard Number Girl or Zazen Boys?

I also feel it's important to mention that it was Japanese music that got me interested in the country and language, not the other way around.

[quote="Thinliine"]I don't favor bands because they are Japanese.[/quote]

Statistically, though, judging by how much time, effort, and knowledge you have invested in Japanese music, compared to the music of other nations, you surely favor them and pursue their music specifically.

Not saying there's anything wrong with that, but that's just a statistical contradiction.

Note: GR, I wasn't aiming that comment at you, at all. I just felt like venting, because I've seen plenty of people like Omnistry who go "MEGAJPOP KAWAII DESU NE" and it just grates my nerves when they go "lol Brittney Spears sucks.. WHO'S UP FOR SOME AYUMI HAMSOCK?!"


[quote="Thinliine"]
There are plenty of great rock bands from around the world, and I listen to tons of English language music in addition to Japanese rock bands. Japan's good rock bands get attention here because they don't get any attention elsewhere. Who outside of this forum, Keikaku, and Distortional Addict listens to any of these guys? The way you're talking, you would think there was some sort of Japanese rock epidemic sweeping the world.
[/quote]
I know quite a few people at my school, and outside of my school who are into Japanese rock. Some are into the good stuff, some are into the visual kei stuff. Japanese media is getting pretty popular in the states, although mostly due to anime. I have no idea if it has to do with me living in California, really, but it's not unusual to find someone who at least KNOWS of the pillows.

And in regards to a worldwide viewpoint, nearly every Finn I talk to listens to Japanese music. Japan and Finland seem to have a little friend relationship with each other. A lot of Finns love Japanese fashion/music, etc; And there's quite a few Japanese with interest in Finnish music, moomins (it's a little cartoon/comic thing), and the like (I've heard they have a Finnish metal festival every year in Japan). I've also talked to a girl from Saudi Arabia who was a complete visual kei freak, and that was just.. well.. you know when you meet a v-kei freak in the states how it's kinda awkward? Well talking to one from SA is even.. worse.. thankfully it was only on the internet (there's nothing wrong with her being from Saudi Arabia XD but it was just.. random as fuck. The way the portray the Middle East in America, it makes you think they're living very barbaric, primitive lifestyles, but this girl was pretty good at Guitar Hero, or so she said.)

[quote]

Japan has tons of innovative noise rock, avant garde, psychedelic, and experimental artists - that's where the innovation is. Just ask catfish what he listens to. Unfortunately, I'm not too familiar with these bands yet.

I don't think Japan inherently does stuff better. I hate J-Pop just as much as American pop music, and most mainstream Japanese bands are total crap. But Japan has a vibrant indie rock scene that rocks considerably harder than most of the indie "rock" bands in the States right now. Zazen Boys sound way different from anything in the US right now, Number Girl is a great fusion of post-hardcore ala Fugazi, Pixies influence, and traditional Japanese music. Sparta Locals are/were one of the only revival bands to do justice to the legacy started by Television so long ago. Ging Nang Boyz are probably the most energetic and creative punk band in the world right now. Cornelius is one of the major innovators in modern popular music. Luminous Orange is how shoegaze should be done. I could go on.[/quote]
If you want experimental music, buy The Mars Volta's De-loused at the Comatorium (unless experimental is a set defined genre, in which case that wouldn't really make any sense). It's a great CD. Pretty much like nothing you've ever heard. Another band, that somewhat SOMEWHAT feels like the Mars Volta, like.. the same genre in a way, but still very unique and such, is Ohm. Check them out, too. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ohm_%28band%29

I'm sure you could find plenty of indie bands in the states that are just as good as any of the indie bands in Japan that you said. You just have to look. There are plenty of bands out there that have the most amazing music that you'll probably never know about, because you never looked. Same with me, same with everyone else. They might be Japanese, they might be American or British, they might be from Uzbekistan. You never know. That's why things like Last.FM, Myspace, and Pandora are pretty neat. It helps you expand your musical taste

As for psychedelic... check out Devendra Banhart, and I THINK Six Organs of Admittance is considered psychedelic, too. Devendra Banhart is basically the poster child of "freak folk", and Six Organs of Admittance, anyway you put them, are freaking brilliantly unique. They mix in so much stuff with their music, like.. well.. haha I don't really know how to put it. Just check them out. They have a 23 minute song called Rivers of Transfiguration that's pretty damned awesome. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six_Organs_of_Admittance

I've heard Ging Nang Boyz, I didn't care for them that much. I heard Sparta Locals and I thought they were pretty good, but I haven't listened to them in forever (I have a CD here somewhere in my files) It was the sorta thing I'd only listen to once or twice. The other bands, I've yet to hear. I'll check 'em out sometime, I guess, since you guys keep raving on and on and on about them. Also, I've just barely recently found out about Shoegaze; check out my thread about that band Shimura Curves, I'm pretty sure they're considered a bit of Shoegaze? They're pretty neat.

[quote]
I judge each band individual, and give no weight to their country of origin. If it was the Japanese version of Fallout Boy, I would still hate it. [/quote]
Good.


[quote]
Yup, I pretty much hate glossy pop regardless of the country of origin. Shiina Ringo is about the only exception that comes to mind, but her solo music can be so "out there" that it isn't a fair comparison, anyway.[/quote]
Alrighty. I remember Shiina Ringo being pretty good, anyway. Her and Rie Fu would be the only Japanese pop or whatever I had listened to, but Rie Fu isn't really Japanese pop.. she's more of a Michelle Branch type person. >_>; Listening to Regina Spektor kinda reminds of her.

[quote]
Yes, I would. I don't like them just because they're Japanese, but because they're great bands. Besides, didn't you say that you had never even heard Number Girl or Zazen Boys?

I also feel it's important to mention that it was Japanese music that got me interested in the country and language, not the other way around.[/quote]

I wasn't bashing the bands themselves, but just using them to make a point.

As for the whole getting into music or whatever, I started getting into Finnish/Finland, and Italian/Italy just because, basically. I can't stand nearly all Finnish bands I've listened to, although lately I've been more lenient on my metal taste. However, most Finnish rock bands suck.. look at Lordi, HIM, the 69 eyes, etc. They're all.. well shitty. As for Italy, there was only like one band I liked from there, whose name I can't even recall.

However, if you want some truly awesome music from both Finland and Russia.. do a youtube search for Leningrad Cowboys. It's this Finnish band, somewhat like the Blues Brothers in the fact that they're from a movie and are basically famous for that. They just perform occasionally for fun, and they do cover songs only, I think, although they might have some original material. However, the best stuff they do is the songs they did in a major concert with the Russian Red Army Choir. Yes, the same choir that was the Soviet's own army choir. It's epic hearing Kalinka with a choir that size, and then even more awesome hearing "I CAN'T SEE ME LOVING NOBODY BUT YOUUUUUUUUU FOR ALL MY LIFE!" by some operatic Russian singer. Actually.. http://youtube.com/watch?v=A3l48_EGNdY here you go. It's fucking awesome.

[quote="GoldenRhino"]1)I personally think that Japan is home to a lot of great rock music. Some is more generic while other acts are REALLY out there (Melt Banana, Afrirampo, Polysics, anyone? And no, saying "Polysics are just Japanese Devo" is wrong). So what's wrong with wishing people would expand their musical horizons and actually try to listen to this stuff? It's just like: "Hey guys, there's some good music over there! Let's check it out!" I'm not fellating Japan, understand that.[/quote]

That's the main point that I've been trying to prove across for year now. Why must Americans shun J-ROCK just because it's in another language? More people would rather listen to shit like Nickelback & Hinder than something like bloodthirsty butchers or Number Girl because it's "conveniant" to them.

[quote="GoldenRhino"]2) Of course there are Japanese equivalents of shitty American bands (Panic!, Angels and Airwaves, Fall Out Boy)...that's why I choose not to listen to Ellegarden (Yeah, I said it.)[/quote]

The difference between Panic! and Ellegarden is that Ellegarden aren't whiny little bitches that cry over every fucking thing!

[quote="GoldenRhino"]3) I don't utterly enjoy Japanese pop and condemn English pop. I like...uh...Ringo Shiina and Aiko...maybe some Change & Aska. That's all I can think of off the top of my head. As for English, there's a bit I enjoy (Gwen's Stefani's "Luxurious"<3) but it's just not a genre I'm way into. I know there's a ton of marketted crap in Japan just as there is in America. They're subject to the same bullshit. Again, NOWHERE did I claim any superiority between the two.[/quote]

I think a big difference between the Japanese Pop musicians and American pop musicians is that J-POP artists pull their music out from their hearts; and American pop "idols" pull their music out from their asses. Oh, and Gwen is a Tomoko Kawase wannabee. That's right, I said it!!!

[quote="GoldenRhino"]4) People get different things out of certain sounds. I happen to like the sound of the Japanese language, and the language itself I'm currently studying. I think it's fun to look at lyrics and see how they're translated into English. It's a sound I enjoy.
I'd rather hear Mukai Shutoku of Zazen Boys shout out "U-SO-DA-RA-KE!!!" than a Spanish person shout out "MU-CHAS-MEN-TI-RAS!!!" Call me a biased prick, but I see no problem with it. And I won't doubt that there's a certain "cool factor" that can easily get people interested in Japanese music. But it's the solid quality of the bands you find that'll make you stay.[/quote]

I feel the same way about Spanish music. So annoying everrytime hearing that reggaeton blaring from those stupid speakers. Makes me wishe I had speakers the size of Hummers and then blow those people the fuck away with Guitar Wolf.

Japanese is a beautiful language to behold, and to be able to have the access to hear it is a blessing. To be honest, I like roughly 96% of the artists that I've heard from Japan.