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the pillows - TRIAL (Album Discussion)
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Marekenshin
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Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2005 3:28 pm Posts: 12301 Location: Lost Angels
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 Re: the pillows - TRIAL (Album Discussion)
Personally I really enjoyed Revival, Energy, Minority Whisper, Mochinushi (really like the guitar sound on this one), and Trial. I also quite like Polaris and Rescue. Flashback Story feels a bit weak to me with the generic style, but it has a strong chorus and is a fun track. Comic Sonic and the last track seem like they're good live songs, but don't really grab at me beyond that. Overall it's a solid album and a much more definite step in the right direction than Horn, Again was. Like Jolmes has mentioned, Sawao's solo album was also quite good, so let's hope this trend keeps going and we'll have epic tier albums in another two or so years lol.
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Sun Jan 22, 2012 1:59 pm |
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discovolante
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Joined: Tue Jun 21, 2005 10:56 pm Posts: 2589 Location: beaver this, beaver that
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 Re: the pillows - TRIAL (Album Discussion)
Gave it a second listen today, still liking it as much as I did on the first listen. I'll post a song-by-song review in a bit.
_________________ [quote="Metal2Hedgehog"]A douche is something you put in a girls smiley face.[/quote] [quote="Lesser_Hamster"][i]Sawao utters a chilling whisper through the bathroom door; it's so faint that Manabe almost misses it.
"I WANNA BE YOUR GENTLE MAN."[/i][/quote]
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Sun Jan 22, 2012 8:06 pm |
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Son Goshin
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Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2005 11:23 pm Posts: 1221
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 Re: the pillows - TRIAL (Album Discussion)
[quote="Marekenshin"]Like Jolmes has mentioned, Sawao's solo album was also quite good, so let's hope this trend keeps going and we'll have epic tier albums in another two or so years lol.[/quote] ^Heh, oh if only Mare. If only... Anyways, after listening to the album several times now, I've fully formulated an opinion on it, especially Mochinushi no Nai Guitar: 1. Revival- This song has really grown on me. The Engrish isn't unbearable like some of the others on here. The spelling out of words is pretty cool, gives the chorus some oomph. That guitar solo is also great. The whole song has a nice tone. 2. Rescue- Kinda middle of the road here. I really like the verses after I let the song sink in some more. The chorus, as other people have stated, leaves more to be desired. Yoko does nothing for this song. Why bring her in if all she's going to do is lend a few "na-na-na's" over the chorus of one song. Seems like a waste. 3. Comic Sonic- You know, this song has actually grown on me a lot more after listening to it in the context of the album. When it was released as a single back in June, I didn't listen back to it much. But the song's catchiness has grown on me, and I actually think the "baby baby" thing is kinda cool whereas others thought it was lame. 4. Flashback Story- OK, so I don't know why exactly, but I'm really digging this song. The first time I listened to it, kinda made me go "WTF?". But it soon all sunk in, and despite it being short I really like it. The vocals are awesome I think, even through the reverb and vocal effects going on to Sawao's voice. This is a song I hope will be performed live often, maybe replacing something like The Air Resister which is often in set lists. 5. Energiia- I haven't stopped listening to this since the single came out last month. I think i can now say for sure this is their best single since The Third Eye. There's just so much going on here and I keep finding new things to appreciate about the song (the extra guitar part in the second verse and outro, for example). 6. Polaris...- This song just... doesn't do it for me. I don't mind more slower songs at all, but this one is so boring. I could never stay focused on the song as it just meandered around. I kept forgetting if the song even had a guitar solo and it took me until the 5th or 6th listen that it actually did. Just not a great song overall. 7. Minority Whisper- Once again, Sawao's Engrish messes a song up. I like the riff enough, and the vocal melody is spot on, but the lyrics kill this, and his grammar, pronunciation, etc. He needs to stop doing this because it's not helping either of his audiences any. Still a decent song though. 9. Trial- This is really one of my favorite songs on the album. Perfect for a title track, and it's just a perfect the pillows' song. It's got that AMAZING riff that I just can't get out of my head, and it just screams "PILLOWS!" That's what I love about this band. This song gives me that goofy grin on my face, kinda the same that Finger Post of Magic gave me when I first heard it.  After the intro, the guitar melodies blend together perfectly in the verse, then you get a strong chorus, and an even stronger guitar solo that goes back to that amazing riff at the outro. Good stuff all around and it is a song I'll be revisiting a lot. 10. Ready Steady Go- Was really leery about this song after the first couple listens, but I've come to appreciate it a lot more. The guitar tone is boss, that little intro part is fun, and definitely reminds me of That's a Wonderful World, but doesn't really rip off it at all. It's a lot closer than Poison Rock n Roll and Doggie Howl were, that's for sure. 8. Mochinushi no Nai Guitar- Saved this one for last because this is one that I've thought a lot about. I really WANT this to be my favorite song on the album, but Sawao just did so many things wrong with the pacing and actual structure of this song, I feel. The melodies are so, so sweet and beautiful, because there's a few going on here and they all stand out. The thing is, Sawao didn't give enough time for the song to build, and if he did, the song's emotional effect could've been so much more poignant. First, the little breakdown about 45 seconds into the song; that was just way too early. The opening melody should've been played again with a second verse, then you go into that nice little riff. Because the way I felt, that melody in the verses is like a lullaby, like you're drifting off to sleep. And when that breakdown comes in, it's like you're getting woken up because something's happening. That something happened too soon. The guitar solo also felt like it was way too early in a song like this. Nothing was really [i]building[/i] to it, it just kinda happened. If this would've been a shorter song, that would've worked fine. But Sawao apparently wanted to make a point by having two climaxes; the solo and the outro with him wailing. Again, if some stuff would've been switched around, I think it could've worked better. You get to the end of the second verse, and then you go into that build-up that happens at about 4:20. But I would stay start that quieter, work your way up more. The thing is, in this section, not much changes here. It would've been nice if there was a key change, or the lead guitar started noodling around a bit differently (like the second verse and outro of Energiia), just something to give that sense that you're reaching something truly epic. You add that solo after a couple of those verses, then go back to one more of the original verse, and then get back into that actual climax with Sawao wailing with what seems like a pained heart. Only, the emotion doesn't come through here on this studio recording. Maybe it will live, but when I listened to it, it didn't really tug at any heart strings or anything. Sawao did SO well in Energiia with "You are the Energy to which I MOVE!" That was emotional. That was poignant. That was a climax. That what I was waiting for as I listened to the song build a bit, and I just expected to hear more fro Sawao. The reason I'm being so critical and precise with this song in particular is because I really DO like it. All the melodies are superb, as I said. That guitar solo... holy shit, that moved me. It was really good. But the pacing was just off. Sawao trudged along for much too long after the guitar solo. If I could just get the multitracks to this song, and I could just switch some things around, I feel like this song could easily be in the top tier of the pillows' entire discography. But these things I pointed out holds it back from becoming that and not being another Strange Chameleon or Our Halley's Comet. So in short, it's an amazing song, but had the potential to be SO MUCH better. So overall, it's another decent album. I can't say that it's better than Horn, Again. Miles better than OOPARTS of course. If I had to rank the last 6 albums, it'd look something like this: 1. My Foot 2. Wake Up x3 3. Trial 3. Horn, Again 5. Pied Piper 6. OOPARTS There's no song on Trial I despise. It's just more of the same. Some decent songs, some fairly good, a couple amazing ones. I don't think we'll ever see another truly great ALBUM again. We just gotta hold out for those little gems. Even OOPARTS had them Amegari ni Mita Maboroshi and Primer Beat. That's what I have to look forward to now, and I'm fine with that.
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Sun Jan 22, 2012 8:50 pm |
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Tidusauron12
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Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2008 12:35 am Posts: 2832 Location: Singing in the Rain...
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 Re: the pillows - TRIAL (Album Discussion)
I like Son Goshin's post. Especially on Mochinushi. That nailed my feelings on the song pretty much on the head.
_________________ Want to Sleep FOR... [quote="Marekenshin"]Yo, Tidus, have I mentioned lately that you are one cool SOB?[/quote] [quote="Blank"]Anyone who doesn't like Bokura no HARE Suisei needs to stfu and gtfo of mai raifu.[/quote]
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Sun Jan 22, 2012 9:18 pm |
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Lesser_Hamster
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Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2011 1:18 am Posts: 1634 Location: Ohio
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 Re: the pillows - TRIAL (Album Discussion)
[quote="Son Goshin"]2. Rescue- Yoko does nothing for this song. Why bring her in if all she's going to do is lend a few "na-na-na's" over the chorus of one song[/quote]
The "na-na-nas" were pretty much the only part of the song I liked. I'd argue that it's the pillows who don't really do a whole lot for this song, lol.
_________________ [quote="h2orowe"]Telling me to go suck a dick is like telling Michael Jordan to score some dunks.[/quote] [quote="MrkJulio"]The other night I saw a girl being done by a horse while she tasted a dog's penor.[/quote]
[color=#0000BF]This is the meaning of your life And this is the meaning of your smile[/color]
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Sun Jan 22, 2012 10:34 pm |
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Cloudy_One
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Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2006 2:58 am Posts: 2283 Location: World 5
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 Re: the pillows - TRIAL (Album Discussion)
Well, if that develops to be the popular opinion on Mochinushi, that it didn't reach it's full potential, I can accept that... But I maintain my pleasure with it. That is the song, and I wouldn't touch a thing.
Revival: 9/10 Rescue: 7/10 Comic Sonic: 7/10 Flashback Story: 9/10 Energia: 10/10 Polaris: 7/10 Minority Whisper: 7/10 Mochinushi no nai guitar: 9/10 Trial: 9/10 Ready Steady Go!: 7/10
Right around a B, feels about right... I feel that Trial comes to rest snuggly on the "pretty good plateau" of post-TYMT, pre-Pied Piper. Perhaps closer to the Wake Up! end, but that's kinda splitting hairs here.
Putting number values too them... might not be the best way to go about it; pros/cons/overall impression conveys the opinion in a more personable way. I'll probably comment on a thing or two later but I feel like I've said enough. XD
:edit: lol spelling errors
_________________ All around the country and coast, coast... [b]YEAAAAAAH TOAST!! AUHHHHHHHN TOAST!![/b]
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Sun Jan 22, 2012 11:43 pm |
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Crescent
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Joined: Tue Jun 06, 2006 11:16 pm Posts: 338
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 Re: the pillows - TRIAL (Album Discussion)
So I'm noticing something here.
I think this is sounding a lot like the Horn Again topic.
Granted, reception of that was more mixed, while Trial seems more positive. But I remember the Horn Again topic being a lot of stuff like "Well, I really like these few songs:", "It's a good sign that they're experimenting with their sound a little bit with Nobody Knows What Blooms", "ooparts was shit, this is a lot better", "I think the album's a step back in the right direction, but it's not as good as My Foot/Wake Up x3".
Sound familiar? Again, we seem to have a better overall opinion of Trial, but this topic seems to be an awful lot of the above, with going from a much more mixed opinion suddenly to a consensus "Horn Again was shit" - aka "ITT, even though it's a lot of the same shit as the last ten years, we get hopeful that their next album is better"
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Mon Jan 23, 2012 2:38 pm |
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discovolante
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Joined: Tue Jun 21, 2005 10:56 pm Posts: 2589 Location: beaver this, beaver that
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 Re: the pillows - TRIAL (Album Discussion)
[quote="Cloudy_One"]that it didn't reach it's full potential :edit: lol spelling errors[/quote]
its*
anyway,
Revival: 9/10 Rescue: 6/10 Comic Sonic: 7.5/10 Flashback Story: 9/10, the inclusion of a song of this style alone made me really happy. Energia: 10/10 Polaris: 6.5/10 Minority Whisper: 10/10 Mochinushi no nai guitar: 10/10 Trial: 10/10 Ready Steady Go!: 9.5/10,can't wait to hear this live as Mare was saying.
Latter part of the album is great minus Polaris, which didn't really sink in to me. Overall, the album is a solid listen and I think will grow on some of you if you give it enough of a chance. 8.5/10
_________________ [quote="Metal2Hedgehog"]A douche is something you put in a girls smiley face.[/quote] [quote="Lesser_Hamster"][i]Sawao utters a chilling whisper through the bathroom door; it's so faint that Manabe almost misses it.
"I WANNA BE YOUR GENTLE MAN."[/i][/quote]
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Mon Jan 23, 2012 6:24 pm |
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Spike
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Joined: Mon Mar 16, 2009 12:11 am Posts: 1382 Location: Indiana
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 Re: the pillows - TRIAL (Album Discussion)
Trial is the first album in... well, a long time, that I am super excited about them releasing a band score for, and one that I will probably be buying. Manabe has some interesting lead work on Trial, a vast improvement from that droning, dull OOPARTS/Horn Again sound. (Horn Again had songs I liked, but I never once thought "hey, i'd like to learn that")
_________________ [quote="GoldenRhino"]"...don't give a fuck." [i]- Sawao Yamanaka, 2010. [/i][/quote]
Last edited by Spike on Mon Jan 23, 2012 6:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Mon Jan 23, 2012 6:57 pm |
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Tidusauron12
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 Re: the pillows - TRIAL (Album Discussion)
Minority Whisper is already growing on me. Great fucking song. That pre-chorus and chorus are fucking great. The Engrish is... well, Engrish, but if you listen to what he's saying, it's actually a good message.
Edit: Spike, YES. That is what I'm talking about. This album actually has some cool guitar work... which was at times completely absent on the last two record entries.
_________________ Want to Sleep FOR... [quote="Marekenshin"]Yo, Tidus, have I mentioned lately that you are one cool SOB?[/quote] [quote="Blank"]Anyone who doesn't like Bokura no HARE Suisei needs to stfu and gtfo of mai raifu.[/quote]
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Mon Jan 23, 2012 6:59 pm |
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Ashinow
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Joined: Wed Nov 25, 2009 7:59 pm Posts: 1111 Location: Belgium
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 Re: the pillows - TRIAL (Album Discussion)
[quote="Son Goshin"] So in short, it's an amazing song, but had the potential to be SO MUCH better.[/quote] I don't think it's an amazing song. I would say that it has the potential to be SO MUCH better. And [i]then[/i], when it is better, it would be an amazing song.
In this case the hypothesis that sum of the parts is the whole thing, doesn't hold. The parts of the song are mostly okay. The whole song, in contrast, is just not okay. The parts just don't fit together. You hear all too clearly when one part ends and another part sets in. There is no smooth changeover between the parts.
Minority Whisper has got that pre-chorus and a bridge before the solo. Carnival also has some good pre-choruses.
Okay now let's take a look how Mochinushi works: Verse - Verse - Instrumental break - Verse - Verse - Instrumental break - Second Verse - Second Verse - 'Bridge' - Solo - Second Verse - Second Verse - Third Verse - Third Verse - Ah - Bridge - Instrumental break - Verse - mini outro
It lacks a good bridge or pre-chorus. In a sense, it has no chorus, right? The Instrumental breaks at the beginning are too abrupt, nothing really leads to it. And the break doesn't lead to something else but the verse. In 1989 at least the instrumental break works, because it stays close to the verses. The 'bridge' that goes before the solo, is actually just an almost quiet interval. So again, the solo just jumps in out of nowhere. It takes some verses to finally get to the climax. But again no real pre-chorus or bridge that leads to it. What's confusing is that you expect the climax after the second Second Verse. . .because Sawao sings louder and more emotionally and the solo also started after that, this doesn't happen. Instead those third verses come in, drag the song along and just ruin it. After Sawao's wailing, the guitar work is pretty good, it sounds like an outro. . .but then just comes that "Instrumental break" followed by the begin verse, and that just doesn't really work with me. I would have rather prefered an instrumental outro/fade-out like in Tiny Boat.
So yeah for me, the song is either lacking good pre-choruses/bridges or it has some unnecessary parts. Such a shame.
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Mon Jan 23, 2012 8:40 pm |
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Tidusauron12
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 Re: the pillows - TRIAL (Album Discussion)
I also like Ashinow's post.
_________________ Want to Sleep FOR... [quote="Marekenshin"]Yo, Tidus, have I mentioned lately that you are one cool SOB?[/quote] [quote="Blank"]Anyone who doesn't like Bokura no HARE Suisei needs to stfu and gtfo of mai raifu.[/quote]
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Mon Jan 23, 2012 8:54 pm |
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Son Goshin
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Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2005 11:23 pm Posts: 1221
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 Re: the pillows - TRIAL (Album Discussion)
[quote="Ashinow"][quote="Son Goshin"] So in short, it's an amazing song, but had the potential to be SO MUCH better.[/quote] I don't think it's an amazing song. I would say that it has the potential to be SO MUCH better. And [i]then[/i], when it is better, it would be an amazing song.
In this case the hypothesis that sum of the parts is the whole thing, doesn't hold. The parts of the song are mostly okay. The whole song, in contrast, is just not okay. The parts just don't fit together. You hear all too clearly when one part ends and another part sets in. There is no smooth changeover between the parts.
Minority Whisper has got that pre-chorus and a bridge before the solo. Carnival also has some good pre-choruses.
Okay now let's take a look how Mochinushi works: Verse - Verse - Instrumental break - Verse - Verse - Instrumental break - Second Verse - Second Verse - 'Bridge' - Solo - Second Verse - Second Verse - Third Verse - Third Verse - Ah - Bridge - Instrumental break - Verse - mini outro
It lacks a good bridge or pre-chorus. In a sense, it has no chorus, right? The Instrumental breaks at the beginning are too abrupt, nothing really leads to it. And the break doesn't lead to something else but the verse. In 1989 at least the instrumental break works, because it stays close to the verses. The 'bridge' that goes before the solo, is actually just an almost quiet interval. So again, the solo just jumps in out of nowhere. It takes some verses to finally get to the climax. But again no real pre-chorus or bridge that leads to it. What's confusing is that you expect the climax after the second Second Verse. . .because Sawao sings louder and more emotionally and the solo also started after that, this doesn't happen. Instead those third verses come in, drag the song along and just ruin it. After Sawao's wailing, the guitar work is pretty good, it sounds like an outro. . .but then just comes that "Instrumental break" followed by the begin verse, and that just doesn't really work with me. I would have rather prefered an instrumental outro/fade-out like in Tiny Boat.
So yeah for me, the song is either lacking good pre-choruses/bridges or it has some unnecessary parts. Such a shame.[/quote]
I agree with a lot of your post here. I will concede that [i]perhaps[/i] amazing is too strong of a word to describe this song. Like if I was to give it a number, it'd be a 7/7.5.
That being said, you hit the nail on the head here... there really IS no chorus. However, the song [i]could[/i] work with out a true chorus, but there does need to be more things bridging and linking the different parts of the song together, such as before the solo, as you pointed out. Or, as I stated in my previous post, some parts of the song should be changed around here.
So the only part I differ with you on this song, is that I do think it's at least an "okay" song as is. If executed better, this song could've been god-tier good. I feel this was just too ambitious of a project for Sawao, and it got the best of him and didn't come out nearly as good as it should've.
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Mon Jan 23, 2012 9:28 pm |
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Marekenshin
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Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2005 3:28 pm Posts: 12301 Location: Lost Angels
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 Re: the pillows - TRIAL (Album Discussion)
[quote="Son Goshin"]Mochinushi no Nai Guitar[/quote]
I think that the pacing of it is good actually, it's a song about him and music at parts and the way the song drifts back and forth between sweet vocals and rocking guitar riff is the entire theme of it. I dig it, personally.
Edit: I'd bet the lyrics will also make the dynamics of the song make more sense, it's Sawao singing again about fucking up his relationship and turning to music or something.
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Mon Jan 23, 2012 10:47 pm |
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Son Goshin
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Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2005 11:23 pm Posts: 1221
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 Re: the pillows - TRIAL (Album Discussion)
Yes, this is the song I'm dying to find out the lyrics for most. I hope once we get them it can put things in a better context, but we'll see.
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Tue Jan 24, 2012 12:41 am |
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