[quote="GoldenRhino"][quote="sheerheartattack"]I wonder, hypothetical question: If Bono discovered a type of music that would guarantee increased funding to hunger in Africa, and he altered U2's musical course to meet that goal...would you protest that as well?[/quote]

1) You fail at making completely loaded hypothetical questions.
2) This question doesn't work, because with Sawao, we're talking about straight up desire for wealth. This U2-spin deals with benefitting those who are in need, those whose health hangs in the balance.
3) Don't try to mind-game me, I can't be touched. I'm mothafuckin' GoldenRhino.[/quote]

So you're using a double standard. If an artist feels strongly about helping others, it's acceptable, but if he feels strongly about helping himself, it is not.

Consider also that when a person helps other people, he is helping himself. There is no action that does not have selfish motives. Helping others relieves cognitive dissonance, and it also gives the helper a good feeling of morality. Those are the actual and only reasons that people ever help other people.

Double standards are never sensible. Especially when the so-called exceptions have nothing to do with the subject matter at hand.

Fail? No, win.

[quote="sheerheartattack"]So you're using a double standard. If an artist feels strongly about helping others, it's acceptable, but if he feels strongly about helping himself, it is not.

Consider also that when a person helps other people, he is helping himself. There is no action that does not have selfish motives. Helping others relieves cognitive dissonance, and it also gives the helper a good feeling of morality. Those are the actual and only reasons that people ever help other people.[/quote]

•It's not a double-standard. On one hand, you're talking about masses of kids with shiney, new pop-rock albums in their hands. [b]Luxuries.[/b] On the other, you're talking about giving children food, possibly saving lives, and benefitting the welfare of humanity. [b]Necessities.[/b]

You can't say that "giving money to record companies" and "giving money to school systems" are one and the same because they simply "help people".

Don't think that including that nugget of wisdom about the nature of "selfishness" is going to make your argument stronger. Yeah yeah, Mother Teresa was "selfish" because helping others benefitted herself by making herself feel better and increasing her utility. Whatever.

The fail still stands.

[quote="GoldenRhino"][quote="sheerheartattack"]So you're using a double standard. If an artist feels strongly about helping others, it's acceptable, but if he feels strongly about helping himself, it is not.

Consider also that when a person helps other people, he is helping himself. There is no action that does not have selfish motives. Helping others relieves cognitive dissonance, and it also gives the helper a good feeling of morality. Those are the actual and only reasons that people ever help other people.[/quote]

•It's not a double-standard. On one hand, you're talking about masses of kids with shiney, new pop-rock albums in their hands. [b]Luxuries.[/b] On the other, you're talking about giving children food, possibly saving lives, and benefitting the welfare of humanity. [b]Necessities.[/b]

You can't say that "giving money to record companies" and "giving money to school systems" are one and the same because they simply "help people".

Don't think that including that nugget of wisdom about the nature of "selfishness" is going to make your argument stronger. Yeah yeah, Mother Teresa was "selfish" because helping others benefitted herself by making herself feel better and increasing her utility. Whatever.

The fail still stands.[/quote]

So your idea is that the ends justify whatever the intents may be. I just have to disagree with that.

Er from what I read Goldenrhino presents a more convincing argument...

Personally I'd like to see the pillows take a brief hiatus from album-producing... maybe take seperate vacations... I think taking time away from their work and coming back with their own voice would definitely benefit the band.

I really don't think becoming "popular" is an issue, I mean, the pillows got good exposure by touring with Mr. Children, arguably one of the most popular bands in Japan... granted, Mr. Children is much more recognizable than the pillows are, I am sure.

All I wish is just a cohesive album that I can listen to and think "yeah, they put their heart into this." Oh, and some reggae or ska-inspired tracks might be interesting to listen to, too-

sheerheartattack fails almost every time he touches the keyboard.

i'm not worried about the switch. isnt this their 3rd label? 4th?

[quote="sys2021"]Er from what I read Goldenrhino presents a more convincing argument...[/quote]

That's obvious. GR represents an opinion that most or all of you share. The belief that "selling out" is bad (or existent), and the belief that the pillows should continue to create music that "you like." I am just trying to explore a different opportunity, from a nonbiased point of view. That of, say, someone who has no musical preferences.

His argument is obviously more appealing, because if the pillows continue to make music that is not directed toward a pop audience, the former pillows audience will enjoy it more. However, by saying it would be wrong to switch to that audience, you are saying that the pop audience's musical tastes are somehow inferior, which is quite elitist.

Your claims that you are fearful that the pillows "want to move in the direction of My Foot." My argument is simple: if the artist wants to do something, he should be able to do it. The only way that is debatable is by saying, "But I don't like the new course they are taking, and since it might lead to increased record sales, we will append the title of 'selling out' to them, and create an argument out of that."

Selling out is not so much when you don't want them to do it as when they're doing it ONLY for the money, and not because that's the kind of music they want to make. If what the pillows truly want to make is "pop" rock music, then they can go for it. The thing that many here are fearing is that they will make "pop" rock music in the future because of pressure from this new record label rather than through their own desire.

Simmer down nao, kids, it's Sawao's birthday. He might just read your critiques and kill himself.

Sawao = 38, time to grow up

I find it highly ironic that Sawao's birthday is on... Pearl Harbor day.

[quote="Marekenshin"]Selling out is not so much when you don't want them to do it as when they're doing it ONLY for the money, and not because that's the kind of music they want to make. If what the pillows truly want to make is "pop" rock music, then they can go for it. The thing that many here are fearing is that they will make "pop" rock music in the future because of pressure from this new record label rather than through their own desire.[/quote]

Selling out is a term that is thrown here, there, and everywhere to describe pretty much every band that has ever achieved fame. It is very rare - and I have never seen it - to hear a band saying, "We changed our image and sound so we can sell more records to a more generic pop audience, even though we would very much prefer to have continued to create the music we always have."

Am I saying that actual "selling out" is a myth that does not exist? No - I'm saying that the population never, ever has any objective measure of it, and yet they continue to accuse every band that achieves success through a mainstream audience of "selling out." It's almost ridiculous.

In fact, no one really has any idea how much or how little a record company "forces" a band to comply with certain standards. It could be, and is very likely, that these companies make suggestions that the band has never before had the opportunity to take before, as with the new label they receive a much larger production budget. Artists can fine-tune their songs until they sound just the way they want them to. Does it make them sound "perfect" or "overproduced"? Perhaps it does.

[quote="Thinliine"]I find it highly ironic that Sawao's birthday is on... Pearl Harbor day.[/quote]

Whoa.

Anyway, that's tomorrow.

/ \
|
HAHAHA!

That made my day

[quote="Hybrid Pillow"]/ \
|
HAHAHA!

That made my day[/quote]

Use quotes much?


Besides that... bands that "sell out" are bands like Good Charlotte who sickeningly create bullshit to sell their merchandise. Whether or not they have good songs isn't what's being debated.

Also, the pillows have changed "sounds" like three times already. Compare the stuff in Pantomime to the stuff in Living Field. Compare that stuff to songs in PML and TYMT. There have obviously been stylistic changes in their sound. If they haven't gotten the hang of how to make kickassingly awesome songs like Hybrid Rainbow in My Foot-form YET, I'll still have faith in them.

The last thing I'd like to say is that we all don't like ALL of the pillows' songs. Personally, I don't really like Naked Shuffle or Nonfiction and I really hate Happy Slave. That's O.K. I like Boku wa Outsider, Terminal Heaven's Rock, and My Foot. It's no big deal. Many don't like the earlier sounds (like Kool Spice), others don't like the late sounds (like My Foot). Whatever. They still rock, and I'm sure we can see some good songs still getting cranked out in the future, despite label changes.

Plus, we can't fear the pillows selling their souls to the devil. Shin would stomp him.

I like all their music.

and HAPPY SLAVE and NAKED SHUFFLE rock

SHAKE!!

agreed.

[quote="sheerheartattack"][quote="sys2021"]Er from what I read Goldenrhino presents a more convincing argument...[/quote]

That's obvious. GR represents an opinion that most or all of you share. The belief that "selling out" is bad (or existent), and the belief that the pillows should continue to create music that "you like." I am just trying to explore a different opportunity, from a nonbiased point of view. That of, say, someone who has no musical preferences.

His argument is obviously more appealing, because if the pillows continue to make music that is not directed toward a pop audience, the former pillows audience will enjoy it more. However, by saying it would be wrong to switch to that audience, you are saying that the pop audience's musical tastes are somehow inferior, which is quite elitist.

Your claims that you are fearful that the pillows "want to move in the direction of My Foot." My argument is simple: if the artist wants to do something, he should be able to do it. The only way that is debatable is by saying, "But I don't like the new course they are taking, and since it might lead to increased record sales, we will append the title of 'selling out' to them, and create an argument out of that."[/quote]

Wow, don't drag me into this. You don't want that.
Do you even read your own posts? Goldenrhino's argument is backed by logic, yours is backed by your own as-a-matter-of-fact opinion.

This isn't about selling out or elitism. It's about demanding good music from the pillows. Really good music, which we know they are capable of producing. No one is arguing that My Foot is a bad album. But compare My Foot to some of their better albums... there's a difference. Yeah, I enjoy a few songs off of My Foot, for sure, but they're not at the same level as say, Strange Chameleon, or All the Way to the Edge of this World are to me.