sheer is, sadly, right. i mean every indie band out there, although making some good music, is often goal-aimed towards making it big (being commercialized, famed swag for the masses) its funny how music is so solicited and marketed...sorta takes it away from the purity of it as an art.

too bad music isnt just for music's sake anymore.

[quote="pokemon master"]
too bad music isnt just for music's sake anymore.[/quote]

When was this?

Also, since when did it become a bad thing that the intrinsic quality of something is enhanced through competition and rewards? If there were no benefits to creating music, there would be no music - no good music, at least.

A song is only as good as the enjoyment it creates. The end. Why it was made is completely and utterly irrelevant.

[quote]i mean every indie band out there, although making some good music, is often goal-aimed towards making it big[/quote]

Yea, this is sometimes true, but i think we are seeing a major backlash against the major record labels with music now. you are starting to see artists reject multi-million dollar offers from major labels cause they know what will become of their name(immortal technique is an example, so is sufjan stevens i believe.) Believe it or not, fall out boy (according to a friend of mine who was a die hard fan of theirs) made really good music before signing on to a major label. And also according to my friend who has watched many of their interviews, hate what they have become.

If the pillows want to make money, they need to harness the power of the internet. Really, using major labels to get money is obsolete. According to thom york from Radiohead, music is an art and once i create a song it isn't mine anymore it's the societies, and i have no right to take it away from them. I fully believe this because what he is saying is true. If a musician that is good gets his name across through the internet, and the people realize that he really is good, they can download all of his music, become a real fan, and will come to their concerts. this really forces musicians to work hard for their music if their only forms of revenue will come for concerts, meaning they will only make the best music they can make. It weeds out the crap artists from the good. Watch the episode of South Park "Christian Rock Hard" that episode explains this idea very well.

and GR, stop being our smug dictionary from the west coast.

wow very long post...i gotta stop doing these.

[quote="Little Bastards"][quote]GR, stop being our smug dictionary from the west coast.[/quote][/quote]

How does knowing that Weezer =/= Wheezer make me a smug dictionary?

Also, as long as musicians want to make music and work a well-paying job at the same time, your idea is not reasonable.

Option 1) Difficult. Maybe not so make so much money for my food/clothing/shelter/luxury purchases/friends/family/romantic partners.

Option 2) Works. Those who like shitty music can listen/buy it. Those who like "better" bands can avoid shittier music, and listen/buy as well.

[quote="discovolante"]oh ok[/quote]

I agreed, disco. btw ilu<3

I think sufjan stevens is the best example. He released the album illinoise, and critics loved him, his word got out, people downloaded his music, and now his concerts are packed full. His job is performing and creating music, he doesn't need a middle man telling him what to do. If you think about it, the pillows were fairly successful before avex trax, they were performing often, releasing music that people respected, and toured north america.

Little Bastard, you're way off the mark here. If an artists CDs don't sell, the record company boots them off at the first opportunity, and it's not the artist themself that arranges and pays for the tours, so without that record label backing them, they're not going to be able to get the kind of venues that can make big money, and they won't get the publicity to fill them up anyway. And nobody in their right mind turns down a MULTI-MILLION dollar contract.

[quote="Jomei"][quote="discovolante"]oh ok[/quote]

I agreed, disco. btw ilu<3[/quote]

ilu jomei<3

I guess it is kind of pointless to worry about mainstream music vs. quality, since it usually ends up as cyclical arguments like "a band makes more money selling mainstream music but then the music has a dip in quality and therefore it is not good music but at least they have the money to put out music and go on tours but then what's the point of going on these tours if the music's no good and gosh all darn it I do want Sawao to be a millionaire I mean the guy did write Swanky Street he deserves something but I mean with that kind of cash he'll never write another Swanky Street again" etc ad nauseum.

I'll just put out my opinion that the pillows wrote better songs ten years ago than they do now. They'll probably never make another album like Living Field or Please Mr. Lostman. But, they have to do what they want to do and that's just life.

[quote="discovolante"]

I'll just put out my opinion that the pillows wrote better songs ten years ago than they do now.[/quote]

Now this is actually a valid point.

Trying to correlate quality to a band's success or the degree it is mainstream is just plain stupid.

Additionally, being mainstream is defined by more people favoring you. Therefore in more people's opinions, there is an increase in quality. Then again, if you think your 100% subjective opinion is simply superior to everyone else's, I suppose there's no point in this discussion.

If you want to make music your career, there's nothing wrong with wanting to make it big, or least make it to some extent. You need to be able to afford to feed yourself.

[quote="sheerheartattack"]
my 100% subjective opinion is simply superior to everyone else's.[/quote]

This song when i first heard it. It sound like one of those songs that get put in the backround of some kids show =S
I mean the gutiar solo thing. Sounds like he's basically. just just something not creatif

For the record I would like to point out that "making it big" can mean two things.

1) broader audience.

2) money.

While it's true that in most genres of music "making it big" means money. But I think it's safe to say that the indie scene is still in it for the art (minus Of Montreal of course) and all making it big means to them is reaching a wider audience.


Most bands who seems "mainstream" now who were once indie or whatever, probably didn't have a say in the matter. Since they're under contract with their record company, the record company gets a big say in pretty much everything the band does. Most of the time when an indie band signs to a major label their not trying to "sell out" and become in any way commercial, they're simply trying to reach more people with their music. If the quality goes off a bit, what can they do? They just signed a 5 record deal with a major label and turning their backs on that is a breach of contract and major labels like to get their moneys worth, not waste it.


I would like to also point out that the pillows were never really indie. They've always been mainstream pop, just not well known in Japan. I don't understand why you all keep insisting that they're indie when they never have been. Maybe to our modern music standards, but not to Japan 1989-2008. So I don't understand why everyone is making such a huge deal about them "turning pop" when they've always been pop. It just so happens that now that they're older and care even less what people say, and they have more fans then ever, and a label that's willing to dish out a ridiculous amount of money to let Sawao do whatever pops into his brain, do you really think they're not going to use this opportunity to do what they like doing and make fat cash from it and soon retire from the band?

Seriously guys, they're not indie, and they're not American. Shut the fuck up about how Sawao is finally able to write shitty pop songs and get paid fat for it.

Don't believe me? Go back into Japans music history and pull out some of the shit that was popular in the rock genre that isn't visual kei during the time the pillows have been around and you'll understand what I mean.

Also, they have never been artsie so take that "they're commercial" comment and blow it out your ass. They have been scrapping the bottom of the barrel as far as ideas go their entire career. Hence the love songs and plain videos. They've never really been creative in any way shape or form. They're a very basic Japanese rock pop group. Always have been, always will be. You guys really need to realize that and stop saying stupid shit about Sawaos lack of skillz. It's not his fault.

I can't tell if you're backing up the pillows or bitching about them in that post. In either case, all rock bands sing love songs, it's not so much the topic but the music itself that is generally what makes a song creative. Also, opinions. People have them, so you can just blow it out your ass.

[quote="supertrampolineschoolkid"]Stuff.[/quote]

Damn, who rained on your parade?