[quote="Thinliine"]Apparently, Culen managed to convince Thrice on his error regarding Japanese quality. [b]I can confidently say that the Japanese, who just so happen to take guitar VERY, VERY seriously[/b], can build a guitar better than immigrant labor "American" standard models. Not to mention that the Japanese guitars don't have the bad bridges and below quality electronics that ruin the American Standard guitars. The Vintage Reissue guitars are nice, but the US models aren't nearly as good a value as the Japanese ones. I wholly believe that if Fender Japan were using really high quality woods, nitro lacquer finishes, and better pots in their guitars, that they could easily beat everything except really good Fender Custom Shop guitars.[/quote]
Damn, you must have spent a shitload of time there.

who cares where the guitar was made or how much it costs? my acoustic cost me 30 bucks and it sounds gorgeous. its all about having fun.

I like how the new guy makes more sense than the bitchy old-timers.

[quote="telecastermaster"]who cares where the guitar was made or how much it costs? my acoustic cost me 30 bucks and it sounds gorgeous. its all about having fun.[/quote

Yeah, telecastermaster. You basically won this entire thread.

[quote="telecastermaster"]my acoustic cost me 30 bucks and it sounds gorgeous. .[/quote]

Actually, that dosen't make sense.

[quote="Thinliine"]MIJ Fenders use US pickups, which are okay, but there are many, many better options. The mini-pots in MIJ Fenders suck, but the stock American electronics aren't too much better. Adding some CTS pots to your Fender makes a much bigger tonal difference than you would think. You might find yourself playing with the tone control much more often.[/quote]

I bought my Mustang off ebay (just like my 4001 Ric FLCL bass) and I really love it, but it's got really screwy electronics. It was retrofitted with Seymour Duncan HotRails. When Manabe signed it he asked if it sounded good...and I really couldn't tell him. I've only played it through little practice amps and my Tascam trainer.

I think the HotRails are a mistake, though. Aside from the fact that the switches are illogical and have dead settings, the pickups are distorted from the git-go....and so I doubt that you can get the range of sounds after effects that you could get with the stock coils.

The action is great, and I just play unplugged a lot, so I'm not really doing it justice. But if I can snag an Orange amp I'd get serious about massaging the sound, and then I'd definitely either pick up a Jagmaster or have the Mustang modded back to Fender pickups. And at that point I'd definitely upgrade the pots.

(*sigh*) But I may have to do all this myself, because I haven't gotten satisfaction at ANY guitar shop yet. They talk a good line, but they don't know shit from a hole in the ground.

Oh well.

[quote="Lepton"]I bought my Mustang off ebay (just like my 4001 Ric FLCL bass)[/quote]

I don't want to hear you call a Rickenbacker 4001/4003 bass guitar the FLCL bass again. That is a crime punishable by death.

Also, buy some stock Fender Mustang pickups, or some Seymor Duncan Antiquity pickups, new switches and look for another guitar shop and have them redo the electronics so it sounds like an original Mustang.

[quote="thejedipunk"][quote="Lepton"]I bought my Mustang off ebay (just like my 4001 Ric FLCL bass)[/quote]

I don't want to hear you call a Rickenbacker 4001/4003 bass guitar the FLCL bass again. That is a crime punishable by death.

Also, buy some stock Fender Mustang pickups, or some Seymor Duncan Antiquity pickups, new switches and look for another guitar shop and have them redo the electronics so it sounds like an original Mustang.[/quote]


Ulp! ya, ok.....but I was *seriously* thinking of making a pull starter/chainsaw sound effect module for the back of it and then surprizing Jun with it as a gift the next time I see him....

I can do the Mustang work myself- in fact, I guess I ought to go ahead and order a blank pickguard so I'll have it when I get ready to do it.

But I think I also want to tuck some additional electronics in there- at the VERY least, a headphone amp so I can walk around with my Sony ANR headphones and play unmolested by cables. If I get ambitious I may even go wireless. And an onboard tuner isn't out of the question.

Just the built-in headphone amp would get me playing a lot more.

sort of off-topic, but, uh, both tone knobs on my strat seem to do [i]absolutely nothing.[/i]

They're on there for show.

It's OBVIOUS that the Japanese take guitarmaking very, very seriously, because it's evident in the details. Moreso on Japanese Gibson copies than Fenders, but small things like the way and shape a top is carved, the woods used on very high end guitars, the pots, etc. I'm not going to waste all day picking apart every minute detail, but you get the idea. I haven't played a thousand different guitars, but thanks to the internet, you can learn from other individual's first hand experiences with a few quick searches. Just visit the Fender Forum or Gear Page or whereever and ask your little questions. You'll get the exact same answers I just told.

It's also worth mentioning that a vast majority of vintage Fenders and Gibsons now reside in the hands of Japanese rock-and-guitar fanatic collectors. Thrice obviously isn't too familiar with the Japan's almost freakish obsession with rock history... and in turn, guitars.

And yes, any guitar can be a good one. The guitars Squier makes today are not bad at all, especially if you upgrade the electronics and get the thing set up correctly. The big deciding factor is the wood- every piece is different, so it's always a good idea to try the guitar you want to buy in person rather than ordering it sight unseen. Try all you can, and buy the one that "speaks to you."

Hmm. Lots of disputes about which Fender is better.

First we have to look at the company. This is not Rickenbacker we are talking about. Rickenbacker is so inconsistent that you really need to see and play the guitar a while before you decide to buy one. Fenders are mass produced from an assembly line whether it’s from Mexico, USA, Japan, and now even Korea. The only “Difference” between these companies is the components that are used.

This does not even mean that USA is better than the Mexico, Korean, or Japanese models. If you want a QUALITY Top Component Fender, then you should just go Buy yourself a G&L. You get what you pay for. When you buy a USA model your getting better parts now that doesn’t mean that you are getting a better built guitar since they all come off the assembly line they are all built the same way.

There are some subtle differences that can have an impact on your decision as well.

Korean and Japanese models are almost always Basswood or Alder. Basswood is a softer wood which give a warm sound and also makes for a lighter guitar. Alder is a little denser and has a brighter sound with amazing tone. The downside to this is the necks are fairly cheap and have a tendency to warp easy unless taken good care off. The upside to these models is that the neck and bodies seem to have great balance and feel very comfortable to play. This largest downside is the electronics. They are total shit. You might get lucky and get about 5 years tops (that’s with amazing luck) out of these guitars tops before you start having problems.

The Mexico Models are kind of an in between package. You get the good woods but you still keep the crap electronics.

USA models primarily use Alder and the occasional boutique woods. This upside is that the sound quality can be better with more distinct sounds wither you choose a wood that was more warm or vibrant. The downside is that with the USA models I noticed that many of them were neck heavy (which some people prefer. It’s all a matter of preference) which made them uncomfortable to play. The electronics in the USA models are better than the Mexico, Korean, or Japan models but are in no way premium electronics. You may get a few more years out of them.


What I recommend is just picking the guitar you want, then having it professionally set up with new electronics kit set up on it. Get some new POTS, Switches, rewire it, and I would recommend adding copper shielding to the underside of the pick guard. It helps a lot. If your not good at working on guitars just higher someone to do it for you. If you buy the parts you can get a good setup for around $50-$250. You just need to search around for the best price. The more expensive ones, you can just tell them what you want your guitar to sound like, and they make it happen.

The tone capacitors on the all fenders except USA models suck complete ass, so you may want to upgrade the tone capacitor. I like Orange Drops, but many people don’t like them because they are hit and miss. Some times you will get a crap one, but when you get a good one, it’s good.

Interesting comment, considering that Rickenbacker guitars are famous for their quality craftsmanship... sadly, I've never had the opportunity to play one of their electric guitars. I'd agree on G&L, they are head and shoulders above most Fenders. I'm not a big fan of their neck profiles, but otherwise, a good package.

Like I already said, the only thing that could be considered to hold back MIJ Fenders are the woods. Some of their higher-end, limited models do feature two-piece alder or swamp ash bodies, so I'd go for one of those if I were only considering a Fender.

The stuff about the electronics is dead on. Most younger players don't have any idea how important the pots, wiring, and shielding are in an electric guitar.

[quote="Thinliine"]The stuff about the electronics is dead on. Most younger players don't have any idea how important the pots, wiring, and shielding are in an electric guitar.[/quote]

I think most people just don't have an ear that can discriminate between individual Sprague Orange Drop capacitors. (Or maybe they can, but just don't know what they're hearing.)

I don't mean that to be particularly smartass- but you do have to be listening carefully, and most people just don't do that. Obviously, people who make sound for a living take a lot of care and get down into fine details like this; you and I may consider it essential and rightly so, but most people are happy if noise comes out and twisting the knob does *something*.....

If you really wanted to get a handle on this you'd be doing impedance spectroscopy on your signal networks and plotting the response curves and developing methods of curve matching, so you could either screen individual components or tweak equivalents to get EXACTLY what you want. And probably the guys that can give you "any sound you want" are doing this already.

Most people, though, are going to go to modeling amps and cheat there way out of this, and then the guitar is no longer the repository of the tone quality....

...except when you really want a sound that is honest. I think there will always be a few that it actually matters to, so I'm glad to see that someone is paying attention to these things.

[quote="Thinliine"]Interesting comment, considering that Rickenbacker guitars are famous for their quality craftsmanship... [/quote]

Actually Rickenbacker is known for its rather shotty work. They are really a hit and miss company. You either buy and amazing guitar or a total piece of shit. Now older pre-80's (or before they shut down the first time. I cant remember exact dates) models are all about quality. But I am talking about 90's+ models.

[quote="Lepton"]If you really wanted to get a handle on this you'd be doing impedance spectroscopy on your signal networks and plotting the response curves and developing methods of curve matching, so you could either screen individual components or tweak equivalents to get EXACTLY what you want. And probably the guys that can give you "any sound you want" are doing this already.[/quote]

That is going a little above and beyond the call of duty here. If you really want to get that technical then you mine as well purchase some parts from Warmoth and some other vendors Like Mojo Electronics and just build yourself a guitar from scratch.

The Tone capacitor upgrade is huge, and even someone who is just getting into the music will notice the difference when messing with there tone knob. The range is so much larger with better defining tones.