First of all, the Foo Fighters long ago had won a special place in heaven for their classic music videos. I suppose, musically, they aren't significantly better than Nirvana, especially considering all the filler in their albums. However, I can find absolutely nothing about Cobain's songwriting that is either worthy of awe or intimidation, in neither a sense of technique nor complexity nor artistic significance. Knowing him, Dave Grohl would probably have said those things about anyone who fronted the band. There's simply nothing about Kurt Cobain that I could attach the word "extraordinary talent" to.

Of course, they were a pretty solid group...but if you can attach the word "overrated" to one band in the history of the universe, it's Nirvana - a name and a face everyone can recognize, but known to most for only one (mediocre) song. Nonetheless, if I have anything against this band, it is that they paved the way for shit, shit, and more shit throughout the 90's and 00's, ushering in a new era where musical ability and complexity was shunned. Guitar solos? Singing talent? Polyphony? Where'd it go? Nirvana took it and killed it.

Of course, the same could be said about Michael Jackson, who gave us Britney Spears and the Backstreet Boys. Essentially, neither Jackson nor Nirvana were particularly bad, but what came after each is unforgivable.

[quote="sheerheartattack"]

Of course, they were a pretty solid group...but if you can attach the word "overrated" to one band in the history of the universe, it's Nirvana - a name and a face everyone can recognize, but known to most for only one (mediocre) song. Nonetheless, if I have anything against this band, it is that they paved the way for shit, shit, and more shit throughout the 90's and 00's, ushering in a new era where musical ability and complexity was shunned. Guitar solos? Singing talent? Polyphony? Where'd it go? Nirvana took it and killed it.

Of course, the same could be said about Michael Jackson, who gave us Britney Spears and the Backstreet Boys. Essentially, neither Jackson nor Nirvana were particularly bad, but what came after each is unforgivable.[/quote]

Nirvana did indeed pave the way for shit in rock music, I completely agree. Because they were so popular (and I agree, they are very overrated), bands thought that their style was "the way" to go with music. I think that as a band a lone Nirvana works out pretty well (I for one enjoy the sound of Curt's voice, and the guitar work, while simple and lacking in terms of polyphony, is interesting enough to make their songs listenable). The problem is... Nirvana did it right. Their most popular song, "Smells Like Teen Spirit" is probably one of their most mundane (IMO, at least, post-1991), with some of the stupidest lyrics... repetitive guitar play, and simplest riff writing EVAR.

After Nirvana was gone people started to replicate the "WE DON'T NEED SOLOS" crap (or the "SIMPLE SOLO BASED OFF OF VOCAL MELODY"), or even worse... the "THIRD GUITARIST!? WHO NEEDS A LEAD GUITARIST CURT DID BOTH LOLZ!!111111111111"

The result? Complete shit. I find that bands that have come after Nirvana have been complete shit, including most of the utter garbage that is out there today. So to that extent, I agree with you Sheer.

BUT, I don't think that Curt was completely without talent. I for one take the band's official word on it that he wrote the songs. The hooks are simple, and guitar parts repetitive, yeah... but the band pulled them off well, and I don't think they were bad. Compared to all of the shitty bands that get the spot light today, I think Nirvana did their success at least some justice.

Anyways, off-topic is done for me.

I can agree with everything you said there. So, how about those new releases?

[quote="sheerheartattack"]I can agree with everything you said there. So, how about those new releases?[/quote]

To sum up my feelings on the pillows most recent songs... I wish I understood Japanese to the extent that I could feel the emotional weight of what Sawao was saying word-for-word. It would really help out since the emotional power isn't as apparent from the just the instrumental parts alone these days (for example, when I listen to "Let's See if that's True or Not", I don't really know what Sawao is saying 50% of the time... but the way he sings combined with the chord progression *the chords struck in Tashikame ni Yukou are something lovely* and the guitar tone gets me everytime).

I kind of feel like songs like 1989 and Ameagari have a lot more value invested in the lyrics as opposed to the instrumental music parts(to face facts, the polyphonic side of the pillows music isn't near the caliber of songs past). You can, of course read the translations of the songs (which Mare provides, in all his awesomeness), but of course, it's just not the same. Sometimes I hear Sawao singing and just the sound of his voice moves me so much... but imagine if you could actually understand those lines as natural? It's what I imagine as pure beauty. This is especially true for 1989 and Ameagari... the vocal line is by far the most important focus in these two songs.

As for OOParts, Melody has a pretty damn active lead guitar line. I enjoy the riffs Manabe employs in the song... the quirkiness is a bit more integrated in the track as a whole, and I think "Melody" is a solid piece of music.

[quote="Tidusauron12"]The only reason I even started listening to them is because of the Predator's C.R.S ([b]I found out about Smells Like Teen Spirit from there[/b]).[/quote]

Holy shit.

[quote="GoldenRhino"][quote="Tidusauron12"]The only reason I even started listening to them is because of the Predator's C.R.S ([b]I found out about Smells Like Teen Spirit from there[/b]).[/quote]

Holy shit. [/quote]

What? The structure of that fucking C.R.S song is the same as Smells Like Teen Spirit (C.R.S is just better. Better melody, better chorus, better drums, better SAME POWER CHORDS OVER AND OVER AGAIN).

The new releases suck.

Err, I mean they are the catchiest songs ever. Long live the pillows!

[quote="Tidusauron12"]What? The structure of that fucking C.R.S song is the same as Smells Like Teen Spirit (C.R.S is just better. Better melody, better chorus, better drums, better SAME POWER CHORDS OVER AND OVER AGAIN). [/quote]

I mean, it's sort of like saying "I found out about The Beatles from the 'Beep beep, beep beep, yeah!' bit in Ride On Shooting Star."

[quote="GoldenRhino"][quote="Tidusauron12"]What? The structure of that fucking C.R.S song is the same as Smells Like Teen Spirit (C.R.S is just better. Better melody, better chorus, better drums, better SAME POWER CHORDS OVER AND OVER AGAIN). [/quote]

I mean, it's sort of like saying "I found out about The Beatles from the 'Beep beep, beep beep, yeah!' bit in Ride On Shooting Star."[/quote]

I don't think so...

CRS is VERY similar to Smells Like Teen Spirit.

If you remember, lots of people kept commenting on the Youtube upload of the song with "SLTS" and I kept wondering what they meant by that...

So I went and listened to Smells Like Teen Spirit and really... the formula for both songs is almost exact. Of course, The Predators' song is a bit more... impressive. But seriously, the chord progression is only slightly different as far as the Power Chords go and the fill is a bit more extravagant but nonetheless the song has an extremely similar composition.

I don't see how it's like saying the "Beep"s at the end of RoSS taught me about the Beatles. I mean seriously, what the fuck does a decorative lyric have in comparison to the entire composition (both musically and structurally) of a song?

I had never heard of the Beatles until I heard Across the Metropolis (catchiest song ever, btw).

[quote="Tidusauron12"]words[/quote]

In case I haven't made it abundantly clear...[b]You learned about one of the most famous rock songs of our generation, from one of the most famous rock BANDS of our generation[/b]...from the fucking [i]Predators[/i].

I don't mean it as an insult. It's just...wow. A lot of diehard pillows fans are really like, sheltered. From other music. It's like finding out about the Christian religion from hearing the line "JESUS ojikitzukeite" in Winning Come Back.

I obviously don't particularly like Nirvana, but GR is completely correct on this one, dude.

[quote="Tidusauron12"][quote="sheerheartattack"]I can agree with everything you said there. So, how about those new releases?[/quote]

To sum up my feelings on the pillows most recent songs... I wish I understood Japanese to the extent that I could feel the emotional weight of what Sawao was saying word-for-word. It would really help out since the emotional power isn't as apparent from the just the instrumental parts alone these days (for example, when I listen to "Let's See if that's True or Not", I don't really know what Sawao is saying 50% of the time... but the way he sings combined with the chord progression *the chords struck in Tashikame ni Yukou are something lovely* and the guitar tone gets me everytime).

I kind of feel like songs like 1989 and Ameagari have a lot more value invested in the lyrics as opposed to the instrumental music parts(to face facts, the polyphonic side of the pillows music isn't near the caliber of songs past). You can, of course read the translations of the songs (which Mare provides, in all his awesomeness), but of course, it's just not the same. Sometimes I hear Sawao singing and just the sound of his voice moves me so much... but imagine if you could actually understand those lines as natural? It's what I imagine as pure beauty. This is especially true for 1989 and Ameagari... the vocal line is by far the most important focus in these two songs. [/quote]

The lyrics in 1989 combined with the vocal melodies are what really makes me like those songs. Of course, I liked the live versions better (slightly so on 1989, which translated very very well to the album version; extremely so on ameagari, where the pacing just felt off compared to the acoustic live version), but the core of the songs are both strong. Ameagari should have been done differently in a lot of areas, though I really dig the outro lead for some reason.

As for deciding how good Fighting Pose is based off of just a single tiny clip, that's absurd. Withholding judgment until I hear the whole song, but the pillows usually have pretty good B-Sides, so we'll see how that works out. In any case, the two new songs we've heard most recently (Ameagari, 1989) have been really good, and there were some true gems on Pied Piper (No Surrender, Last Holiday, Wonderful World), so it's pretty promising for having a pretty darn good album coming out. We'll see though.

I withhold final judgment until the actual track, but the sample didn't intrigue me whatsoever, and usually with a sample they will give you something that makes you excited to hear the full song. If you remember, I predicted that Last Holiday would be the best song on Pied Piper based on the sample. When we heard the final product, not everyone agreed that I had been right, but I'm fairly certain at least you (and several other people) agreed with me that it was, if not the best track, an incredibly pleasant surprise.

My point is that we can definitely get some idea of how good a song will be based on a sample, especially if they are trying to give us the catchiest hook to whet our appetites for more. And Fighting Pose sounds like ass.

Don't gang up on the guy just because he didn't know about Nirvana or even gave them a good listen.
I knew about Nirvana since I was like 12 because of my cousins, they loved Nirvana and Guns and Roses
since forever, but that doesn't mean I gave them a listen. I didn't care really. I like Nirvana but they're not that
great, very overated but they are very influential.

And no problem
I'm glad you have enough info for your theory and thats great. ITS JUST A THEORY. Nothing more, people will take a look at
it and say.. "Yeah I get what he's trying to say" and that would be the end of it. Good work

I don't see why some members on IM try to convey some superiority above others just so they seem smart/witty/clever etc..
A lot of members are most likely still in High School and some are a little older. I'm not pointing out any names and I'm not saying
its a bad thing or its annoying or anything. Its just something I've noticed and I just don't really care for it much.
I mean, am I going to be able to stop someone from thinking themselves to be of some higher level of
superiority? No. I just let it go and let them have whatever plus side to their character.