I'm just saying Nirvana is overrated in general. A decent band with some pretty good songs, but they're no Queen or something.

Nirvana doesn't even have shit on the Foo Fighters. I'm about 99% certain that Dave Grohl was 99% of Nirvana, and Kurt Cobain was just a superficial front who could almost play guitar and sing (but obviously couldn't). I wouldn't even be surprised if Dave played guitar in the studio because Kurt couldn't adequately play guitar with a dick perpetually up his ass.

Finally, anyone who is more concerned about commercial success vs. being "underground" than he is about the music itself is a shallow waste of life (not anymore, of course).

Definitely true, Foo Fighters is far superior in every way to Nirvana.

[quote="pokemon master"][quote="Jomei"]

[quote]But yeah I don't know why but for every album [b]I still listen to them over and over again whether it was a not so Amazing album or just the opposite.[/b] [b]I love their sound no matter what they do[/b], to me their still THE PILLOWS.[/quote]

Perfect example of my hypothesis.[/quote]

Is it so wrong that a person can love their favorite band's song even if they are not up to par with their old stuff? You and rhino seem to think that it must be an excellent song for people to like it excluding all external factors such as, hey, liking the band that plays it a whole lot as well.

The people on this forum love the new stuff as much as the old stuff and are well opinionated on which era has the best of them all. But I wouldn't go so far as to assume that it is "new-track auto-fellation" that's going on here as that'd be a rather brash assumption.[/quote]

The things I've quoted show that I'm right, and this isn't an assumption. Certain people are going to listen to a pillows album "over and over again" whether the songs are amazing or rehashed crap. They will "love their sound no matter what they do." To me this suggests purely a cult obsession with the band rather than genuine appreciation of the music. I still listen to the pillows because they put out decent albums, but when a song or a single sucks, I don't listen to it over and over again merely because they're "still THE PILLOWS" (notice caps to emphasize that the pillows are gods incapable of writing less than "the most catchy song ever").

>Foo Fighters/Nirvana discussion
THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST of you

[quote="Jomei"]To me this suggests purely a cult obsession with the band rather than genuine appreciation of the music.[/quote]

This this this this this!

Back a few years ago, when I first joined IM, I was all into that "MANABE = GOD" thing. I mean, maybe I still am a little bit, but I remember it being "MANABE IS THE ONE AND ONLY HERO."

And at the time, he was. I wasn't really listening to much other music back then. The start of my musical development went something like this:
Yoko Kanno (Cowboy Bebop OSTs), Yuki Kajiura (.hack//SIGN OSTs), Bis (snotty Scottish pop punk and electro), the pillows, and then...well yeah, that was really the core of it. They were my first exposure to really good pop rock that I connected with. Naturally, idolization followed.

But now, as I listen to more and more music, and get obsessed with bands other than the pillows, I realize they've covered their niche 20 times over, with understandably declining results. I'm okay with that. It's just a little frustrating to see people still go apeshit over some mediocre Manabe lead line in a new track. And I'm really not trying to be some elite, jaded Buster.

I think Ameagari ni mita maboroshi is a pretty good song. But think about this with me, guys: What if Ameagari wasn't a pillows song - suppose it were written/played/music video'd by some band we don't really care about. Say it was a Mr. Children song, or a RADWIMPS song. Imagine if Tokyo Bambi were a song by YOUR SONG IS GOOD. Imagine if Sayonara Universe were by Bump of Chicken. Would anyone give a shit? Would anyone be linking it on Instant Music, saying "OH MAN YOU GUYS HAVE TO LISTEN TO THIS, THE LEAD IS INCREDIBLE. WOW, RADWIMPS HAVE DONE IT AGAIN"? No.

If you want to spark someone's interest in a band, you need to show them something pretty remarkable (For instance Alan showed me some of The Band Apart's stuff a while ago, it was fantastic, I downloaded an album and listened the hell out of it). What I'm getting at is: that spark, that remarkableness we find in other music - we should expect it out of the pillows too. If they're not providing it, it's silly to praise it for something it's not.

[b]Spark Notes version: We've gotta hold the pillows to the same standards as other bands. We need more husband-to-wife love (where you love them for who they are, but are able to recognize their faults) and less child-to-mother love (where there's unconditional love and adoration).[/b]

I know you guys are ranting, but I'm not sure how many people it actually applies to. Then again, I'm not an avid participant in the pillows forum, but on the other hand, I'm sure that liking anything is primarily influenced by the source. Jackson Pollock, anyone? What a fucking waste of life he was. Once you identify a band - just knowing its name, even - it's impossible to not let that influence your taste. I don't think that's a problem, because liking something is entirely subjective, and it doesn't really matter [i]why[/i] you like it, as long as you enjoy liking it. Other things that influence whether you like something or not is how new or old it is. If you think you can objectify your taste in absolute terms (i.e. "If song X were by unknown band Y, how good is it to me? How much do I genuinely like it?"), you can't. There are so many reasons why you like something, and only a part of it is how qualitatively good you think it is.

Basically, if you like a pencil just because it says "Dixon Ticonderoga" on it, it doesn't matter if it actually writes like shit. You should still buy them if you like them.

But for the record, they [i]are[/i] the best pencils ever, and would never write like shit.

I miss good old number 2 wooden pencils. It just became so much easier to use mechanical pencils, even though they write like shit 50% of the time or more.

[quote="GoldenRhino"][quote="Jomei"]To me this suggests purely a cult obsession with the band rather than genuine appreciation of the music.[/quote]

This this this this this!

Back a few years ago, when I first joined IM, I was all into that "MANABE = GOD" thing. I mean, maybe I still am a little bit, but I remember it being "MANABE IS THE ONE AND ONLY HERO."

And at the time, he was. I wasn't really listening to much other music back then. The start of my musical development went something like this:
Yoko Kanno (Cowboy Bebop OSTs), Yuki Kajiura (.hack//SIGN OSTs), Bis (snotty Scottish pop punk and electro), the pillows, and then...well yeah, that was really the core of it. They were my first exposure to really good pop rock that I connected with. Naturally, idolization followed.

But now, as I listen to more and more music, and get obsessed with bands other than the pillows, I realize they've covered their niche 20 times over, with understandably declining results. I'm okay with that. It's just a little frustrating to see people still go apeshit over some mediocre Manabe lead line in a new track. And I'm really not trying to be some elite, jaded Buster.

I think Ameagari ni mita maboroshi is a pretty good song. But think about this with me, guys: What if Ameagari wasn't a pillows song - suppose it were written/played/music video'd by some band we don't really care about. Say it was a Mr. Children song, or a RADWIMPS song. Imagine if Tokyo Bambi were a song by YOUR SONG IS GOOD. Imagine if Sayonara Universe were by Bump of Chicken. Would anyone give a shit? Would anyone be linking it on Instant Music, saying "OH MAN YOU GUYS HAVE TO LISTEN TO THIS, THE LEAD IS INCREDIBLE. WOW, RADWIMPS HAVE DONE IT AGAIN"? No.

If you want to spark someone's interest in a band, you need to show them something pretty remarkable (For instance Alan showed me some of The Band Apart's stuff a while ago, it was fantastic, I downloaded an album and listened the hell out of it). What I'm getting at is: that spark, that remarkableness we find in other music - we should expect it out of the pillows too. If they're not providing it, it's silly to praise it for something it's not.

[b]Spark Notes version: We've gotta hold the pillows to the same standards as other bands. We need more husband-to-wife love (where you love them for who they are, but are able to recognize their faults) and less child-to-mother love (where there's unconditional love and adoration).[/b][/quote]

I think GR is right here for the most part. Sure I can appreciate what you have to say about "what if's" and what we
would think of those songs if they were played by other bands. I still don't praise them for their work as "godly", I just like
it a lot. I appreciate their songs now and before. They are the only band that has been consistent with their work.
I can see myself listening to pillows for the rest of my life, and no other band. That's just me, I'm completely satisfied with
just them. I don't give a fuck about any other band other than the few other bands I listened to along with the pillows,
like Arctic Monkeys, Strokes, Pixies, Joy Division, and the last two bands won't ever come out with anything new.
I hate new bands in this day and age, and for me.... I HATE the Foo Fighters, I don't like any of their songs and have never given them the time of day. I have no idea why, I just cannot stand listening to them or seeing them play.
That's just me, not saying their a terrible band, just not the band for me.
I'm just satisfied is all, I don't need anything else in the musical world other than the pillows.

[quote="GoldenRhino"][quote="Jomei"][b]Spark Notes version: We've gotta hold the pillows to the same standards as other bands. We need more husband-to-wife love (where you love them for who they are, but are able to recognize their faults) and less child-to-mother love (where there's unconditional love and adoration).[/b][/quote][/quote]

Agreed, 100%. I don't listen to Rock Stock Swanky Street over and over again, because I think it sounds really bad compared to the original. I also don't listen to Irene, ever.

If Bump of Chicken covered Sayonara Universe, it would probably blow my mind.

[quote="GoldenRhino"][quote="Jomei"]To me this suggests purely a cult obsession with the band rather than genuine appreciation of the music.[/quote]

This this this this this!

Back a few years ago, when I first joined IM, I was all into that "MANABE = GOD" thing. I mean, maybe I still am a little bit, but I remember it being "MANABE IS THE ONE AND ONLY HERO."

And at the time, he was. I wasn't really listening to much other music back then. The start of my musical development went something like this:
Yoko Kanno (Cowboy Bebop OSTs), Yuki Kajiura (.hack//SIGN OSTs), Bis (snotty Scottish pop punk and electro), the pillows, and then...well yeah, that was really the core of it. They were my first exposure to really good pop rock that I connected with. Naturally, idolization followed.

But now, as I listen to more and more music, and get obsessed with bands other than the pillows, I realize they've covered their niche 20 times over, with understandably declining results. I'm okay with that. It's just a little frustrating to see people still go apeshit over some mediocre Manabe lead line in a new track. And I'm really not trying to be some elite, jaded Buster.

I think Ameagari ni mita maboroshi is a pretty good song. But think about this with me, guys: What if Ameagari wasn't a pillows song - suppose it were written/played/music video'd by some band we don't really care about. Say it was a Mr. Children song, or a RADWIMPS song. Imagine if Tokyo Bambi were a song by YOUR SONG IS GOOD. Imagine if Sayonara Universe were by Bump of Chicken. Would anyone give a shit? Would anyone be linking it on Instant Music, saying "OH MAN YOU GUYS HAVE TO LISTEN TO THIS, THE LEAD IS INCREDIBLE. WOW, RADWIMPS HAVE DONE IT AGAIN"? No.

If you want to spark someone's interest in a band, you need to show them something pretty remarkable (For instance Alan showed me some of The Band Apart's stuff a while ago, it was fantastic, I downloaded an album and listened the hell out of it). What I'm getting at is: that spark, that remarkableness we find in other music - we should expect it out of the pillows too. If they're not providing it, it's silly to praise it for something it's not.

[b]Spark Notes version: We've gotta hold the pillows to the same standards as other bands. We need more husband-to-wife love (where you love them for who they are, but are able to recognize their faults) and less child-to-mother love (where there's unconditional love and adoration).[/b][/quote]

You've put it well here GR. I'm in the same boat. A few years back, the pillows were pretty much THE band to get me into music. Since then I've branched out to Weezer, Smashing Pumpkins, Dinosaur Jr., Pixies, The Breeders, Radiohead, Ash, Pavement... so much other stuff. I do realize now that the pillows have not really brought anything OMG!!!1 amazing to the table for the past few albums. There are exceptions to that, but we know that the "Golden Era" is far behind them now, especially when they have toself-cover friggin One Life.

Anyways, that doesn't mean I don't find their music good anymore. It's still better than a majority of the crap we hear on the radio airwaves, but I know the band can do better, and we as fans have every right to expect something better from the band. However, I will contend that Ameagari is an amzing song. I've also been kind of jaded by another of my favorite bands lately, Weezer. It's apparent the quality of their music has gone down since after Pinkerton. But then Ameagari came out, and it really made me appreciate that the pillows DO STILL HAVE IT. I defintiley think they have it in them to bring out an amzing album. Will it be Ooparts? Sometime later in the future? Who knows. I just hope they can work up to their potential and put out something undeniably amazing again.

And also, Brye needs to actually listen to the Foo Fighters. Their first two albums are nearly flawless. The third album is amazing as well.

[quote="AlucardX24"]
If Bump of Chicken covered Sayonara Universe, it would probably blow my mind.[/quote]

Not much of a feat:

[quote]Oh man.. Fighting Pose is probably the most catchy song ever.[/quote]

And Brye,

[quote="Brye916"]They are the only band that has been consistent with their work.
I can see myself listening to pillows for the rest of my life, and no other band. That's just me, I'm completely satisfied with
just them.I'm just satisfied is all, I don't need anything else in the musical world other than the pillows.[/quote]

Thank you for giving me enough data for my hypothesis to become a full-fledged theory.

I prefer Nirvana to Foo Fighters at a [i]depth[/i]. I enjoy songs like "Come as You Are", "Lithium", and "All Apologies" more than any Foo Fighters song I've ever heard.

Anyways, there's too much shit in this forum for me to comment on. the pillows have written quite a discography, and compared to other bands, they're still going good for a 20-year gig.

[quote="Tidusauron12"]I [i]hate[/i] the Foo Fighters, especially compared to Nirvana. I enjoy songs like "Come as You Are" and "Lithium" more than any Foo Fighters song I've ever heard.

Anyways, there's too much shit in this forum for me to comment on. the pillows have written quite a discography, and compared to other bands, they're still going good for a 20-year gig.[/quote]

I agree with you on both counts. Though I don't hate Foo Fighters. Some of their older work is really great IMO.

But lately they haven't been THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST

I retract what I say about hating the foo fighters, but I stand by the fact that I find a number of Nirvana's songs far superior to anything I've heard from Foo Fighters (granted, I've only heard [i]Foo Fighters[/i] and fragments of [i]Colors and Shapes[/i]).

I don't know why I said I hate them. I don't. That was a rash overstatement, which I gladly retract right now.

@Sheer: I don't understand how you conclude that Dave wrote most of Nirvana's shit when he states many times in various interviews that he was "...in awe of Curt's songwriting.." and "...intimidated by him...". Seems like you have some kind of thing out for Nirvana.

As for Nirvana being overrated, I wasn't aware of that. The only reason I even started listening to them is because of the Predator's C.R.S (I found out about Smells Like Teen Spirit from there). Of course now, I see they have a bunch of retarded fans (they plague Youtube). I didn't have much of an opinion about them before going in, and I can honestly say that I find some of their songs pretty darn good.

Yeah Sheer is hardcore full of shit on that notion, but I assumed he was just out to provoke, given the ridiculousness of the claim, and ignored it.