Camio, if you're telling me to mindlessly listen to music, then as a listener and a musician I am going to tell you to STFU.

Sure, over analyzation can come across as exceptionally critical, but even if it's our beloved pillows, I'm not going to sit there and "just " to the music. As a listener, that's not how I enjoy the music. It has to meet certain standards.

My standards have not risen or fallen much at all (since I started listening to the pillows anyways). What changes is the quality of the pillows music according to what my tastes in music are.

Being a musician does not give you the right to tell anyone to STFU.

I completely agree with Camio, you need to stop being so judgmental, what Camio is telling us is to just listen and have fun, not to over analyze everything like if it was a case out of an Ace Attorney game.

Perhaps if you stopped caring about how Sawao's voice has decreased over the years, how Manabe's not playing the riffs you like, or how Shin's drumming is lazy and over-simplified; you'd enjoy what these guys are fleshing out instead of being so sour about it.

Or if you want to stay with the same mindset, you could.. you know.. stop listening to them

Well... singles are almost always great for me. For whatever little niggles that could be derived from opinions of Ladybird Girl, Tokyo Bambi and Ameagari ni mita maboroshi, they still feel like good pillows singles to me. Rodeo Star Mate will likely follow suit. I mean, personally, No Self Control isn't among my favorites but overall I still think it's a good song.

I guess... Just be reasonable? The song isn't out yet, it'd be silly to argue about it until we hear it. I can agree with some things on both sides but ultimately I don't think it will be a very fruitful discussion.

[quote="Tidusauron12"]Camio, if you're telling me to mindlessly listen to music, then as a listener and a musician I am going to tell you to STFU.
[/quote]

news flash: one out of 3 people are musicians

follow up report: I am one too

being a musician does not make you different or special.

there I said it

anyone can play music if they wanted too, and lots of people play music that have never had a truly inspired thought in their life. Plenty of great musicians know how to listen to music and appreciate it for what it is rather than putting em against some delusional objective scale of good to bad.

why, as a musician, would you confine yourself by creating standards that lead you to become prejudice against music. Your attitude towards the music you listen too extends to your own music, and limitation is the death of inspiration.

btw,

yes listen to music mindlessly. you cant consciously decide what kind of music will grab you and hold you. It's the nature of art to be determined by preference, which is deep and free, but logic and rule is not.

oh wai-

thanks for the backup btw Raid, you're allright.

[quote="Camio"]
thanks for the backup btw Raid, you're allright.[/quote]
I-It's n-not like I like you or anything, Camio-sama..

[quote="Jomei"]Here we go again.[/quote]

[quote="Raid"]Being a musician does not give you the right to tell anyone to STFU.[/quote]

I never said it did, I don't think. I was just telling him to STFU because what he is saying is ridiculous.

[quote="Raid"]I completely agree with Camio, you need to stop being so judgmental, what Camio is telling us is to just listen and have fun, not to over analyze everything like if it was a case out of an Ace Attorney game.[/quote]

I'm not being "judgmental". I'm listening to music and not liking it. And then I'm telling people why. Just because you like it and I don't doesn't mean I'm being overcritical. It means the music appeals to you and it doesn't appeal to me. Seriously, some people enjoy music for different aspects than others. I don't really listen to music to "...just listen and have fun...". That sounds very idiotic to me. The "fun" factor for me comes when people are writing interesting music.

[quote="Raid"][b]Perhaps if you stopped caring about how Sawao's voice has decreased over the years[/b], how Manabe's not playing the riffs you like, [b]or how Shin's drumming is lazy and over-simplified[/b]; you'd enjoy what these guys are fleshing out instead of being so sour about it.
[/quote]

Why are you addressing me with these points? I never argued that Sawao's voice decrease or Shin's simple drumming style (as of late) are to blame for my perceived decrease in quality from the band.

[quote="Camio"]

news flash: one out of 3 people are musicians
[/quote]

So?

[quote="Camio"]follow up report: I am one too[/quote]

Um... So?

[quote="Camio"]being a musician does not make you different or special.[/quote]

Never said it did. As a musician, I'm simply stating the fact that my expectations are held generally high for all kinds of music (which I blame completely on the fact that I am a musician). It has nothing to do with other musicians or non-musicians. I has to do with [i]me[/i], and my preferences as my own person.


[quote="Camio"]anyone can play music if they wanted too, and lots of people play music that have never had a truly inspired thought in their life. [b]Plenty of great musicians know how to listen to music and appreciate it for what it is rather than putting em against some delusional objective scale of good to bad.[/b][/quote]

See, this is where you fail to understand my argument. It's not like I sit there listening to pillows music (or any kind of music for that matter) and judge every second of the music by some scale. I sit down and listen to the music and make a decision if I like it or not. If it moves me in a good way, then I'll come here and say why I like it (even if there is no objective evidence I can use to back it up). If I don't, then I'll come here and explain my opinion of said songs in the exact same fashion. You use objective scale AFTER you've decided if you like or dislike something in order to present a reasonable opinion to the table.

The fact that you think that I decide if I like music based solely off of some arbitrary scale must be because of the fact that we're on the internet. I have never met a person in my life who judged music via such robotic standards, and there is absolutely no reason why you should expect that from people who don't like the recent albums.

I'd also like to say that I'm one of the members here who actually like multiple aspects of OOParts. I just don't like it when the lovers present unreasonable arguments towards the haters.

[quote="Tidusauron12"]
I never said it did, I don't think. I was just telling him to STFU because what he is saying is ridiculous.[/quote]


[quote="Tidusauron12"]Camio, if you're telling me to mindlessly listen to music, [b]then as a listener and a musician[/b] I am going to tell you to STFU.[/quote]

Sounds to me like you've backing up that heavy STFU with your ~*musician*~ status

[quote="Tidusauron12"]
I'm not being "judgmental". I'm listening to music and not liking it. And then I'm telling people why. [/quote]



[quote="Tidusauron12"]
Just because you like it and I don't doesn't mean I'm being overcritical. It means the music appeals to you and it doesn't appeal to me. Seriously, some people enjoy music for different aspects than others.[/quote]

Yes, I understand that, but what we're getting at is that you should try to enjoy it from a different aspect.

[quote="Tidusauron12"]
I don't really listen to music to "...just listen and have fun...". That sounds very idiotic to me. The "fun" factor for me comes when people are writing interesting music. [/quote]

[img]http://s3-llnw-screenshots.wegame.com/9-9612865593729509/9612865593729509_l.jpg[/img]
That sentence really saddens me. Now THAT sounds ridiculous, but I'm not telling you to STFU now, am I?

I hope one day you can enjoy music the way it's meant to be enjoyed.


[quote="Tidusauron12"]
Why are you addressing me with these points? I never argued that Sawao's voice decrease or Shin's simple drumming style (as of late) are to blame for my perceived decrease in quality from the band.[/quote]

Don't take it so literal, I was generalizing it in that sentence, but you get the point.

[quote="Tidusauron12"]
I'd also like to say that I'm one of the members here who actually like multiple aspects of OOParts. I just don't like it when the lovers present unreasonable arguments towards the haters.[/quote]

The Pillows aren't making music and handing it down to you guys on a silver platter, that's what most of you people seem to expect.

I don't like it when the haters dislike the new stuff because:

"What changes is the quality of the pillows music according to what my tastes in music are."

"There is better music by other artists"

..If that's your ideal mindset, then maybe this board is not the one for you.

[quote="Raid"]Sounds to me like you've backing up that heavy STFU with your ~*musician*~ status [/quote]

I'm not going to let Camio (or you) tell me how I [i]should[/i] listen to music. That's ridiculous.


[quote="Tidusauron12"]
I'm not being "judgmental". I'm listening to music and not liking it. And then I'm telling people why. [/quote]

When I quoted "judgmental", it was supposed to convey the negative connotation you and Camio attached to it in this case. Of course I'm judging the music as I see it.


[quote="Tidusauron12"]
Just because you like it and I don't doesn't mean I'm being overcritical. It means the music appeals to you and it doesn't appeal to me. Seriously, some people enjoy music for different aspects than others.[/quote]


[quote="Raid"]Yes, I understand that, but what we're getting at is that you should try to enjoy it from a different aspect.[/quote]

No, thank you. I already get the maximum amount of enjoyment I'm going to get from the pillows' music. I've already compromised my standards (much more than you will ever know) for their newer material because they are my favorite band. There are still some songs that I just plain [b]do not[/b] like. And hey, they still release very great music here and there. After 20 years, I'll take that.


[quote="Tidusauron12"]
I don't really listen to music to "...just listen and have fun...". That sounds very idiotic to me. The "fun" factor for me comes when people are writing interesting music. [/quote]


[quote="Raid"]That sentence really saddens me. Now THAT sounds ridiculous, but I'm not telling you to STFU now, am I?[/quote]

Why does that sound ridiculous? Because it's not your opinion? You don't need to tell me to STFU, because I'm [i]not[/i] telling you that's how YOU should listen to music. I'm simply stating that's how I listen to music. Camio's telling us, "quit your bitching and ".


[quote="Raid"]I hope one day you can enjoy music the way it's meant to be enjoyed.[/quote]

Who are you to tell me how music is "...meant to be enjoyed"?

I enjoy music very much thank you... I just happen to think that the pillows' newer music has been lacking in nature at times (I wouldn't go as far Jomei and say it sucks, though).


[quote="Raid"]I don't like it when the haters dislike the new stuff because:

"What changes is the quality of the pillows music according to what my tastes in music are."

"There is better music by other artists"

..If that's your ideal mindset, then maybe this board is not the one for you. [/quote][/quote]

OK. I'm a pillows fan. A big fan. They're my favorite band. If they release albums that start to decrease in quality, and I point out that the quality of their music is decreasing from my perspective... then this board isn't for me? If I point out that I like some other artists' music more than the pillows latest single, does that mean this board isn't for me? That is ridiculous. As a fan, we have every right to post dissensions that we have towards the pillows music, whether you like it or not. We belong here just as much as you do; it's an on-line community for discussion of the pillows, not a "who loves the pillows most" contest.

[img]http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y99/stormysoup/The%20Pillows/stfu.jpg[/img]

[size=85]To your edit: Don't worry, it IS getting kinda confusing, so I'm gonna refrain from quoting much.

(Just add a "[" after the I say 'musician' and it should be fixed)
[/size]

[quote]
I'm not going to let Camio (or you) tell me how I [i]should[/i] listen to music. That's ridiculous. [/quote]

If someone is not listening to music to have fun,then they should not listen to music at all. I know this is something very objective, but if you're not listening to something just to enjoy it, then why are you listening to it for?

Seems most of you are still listening to the pillows out of personal obligation rather than enjoyment. If that's the case, I'm gonna call out on them. If the guys that made Swanky Street are releasing shit like FOXES, is must be for a reason, in their opinion, it's a good song. I find it ridiculous that you people are coming here telling us how "xxxx" artist is better than the pillows in a pillows board. If that's the case, go to "xxxx"s board and stop bitching about it here.

You guys can diss the pillows all you want, but comparing them to other artists is just silly. This isn't a "love pillows contest", I'll be the first one to say how FOXES or Beyond the Moon are lacking, but I'm not telling anyone how JABBERLOOP's OOParts is better than the pillows's OOPARTS.

Also I'm not trying to insult anyone or anything, I could care less what you people think of the latest releases, I just find it rude when you're telling someone to STFU because what they say is ridiculous. If anything, Camio is just telling us to shut up and stop being so pessimistic, maybe you should listen to him instead of telling him to shut up.

Imma let you finish, but
[quote]I'd just like to feel music.
I make and sing a favorite song.
Only that thing.
If you're dissatisfied, disappear.[/quote]

[quote="Raid"]
If someone is not listening to music to have fun,then they should not listen to music at all. I know this is something very objective, but if you're not listening to something just to enjoy it, then why are you listening to it for?[/quote]

I do have fun, but only if I [i]like[/i] the music. If it doesn't sound good to me, then I'm not going to have fun with it. Sometimes the pillows release a song that I can't have fun listening to.

[quote="Raid"]Seems most of you are still listening to the pillows out of personal obligation rather than enjoyment. If that's the case, I'm gonna call out on them. If the guys that made Swanky Street are releasing shit like FOXES, is must be for a reason, in their opinion, it's a good song. I find it ridiculous that you people are coming here telling us how "xxxx" artist is better than the pillows in a pillows board. If that's the case, go to "xxxx"s board and stop bitching about it here.[/quote]

No one's saying that "xxxx" artist is better than the pillows. Some members have pointed out that the pillows music is lacking when compared to other concurrent acts going on in Japan. There's a big difference. No one here is going to say that Ging Nang Boyz or Tokyo Jihen tops the pillows. We all love the pillows' music, that's why we're here. They've been around for 20 years, and it just so happens that most people love the older things. Not many members here (even Jomei or GR, I'd wager) would say that TJ or GNB tops the "holy trinity" albums.

[quote="Raid"]You guys can diss the pillows all you want, but comparing them to other artists is just silly. This isn't a "love pillows contest", I'll be the first one to say how FOXES or Beyond the Moon are lacking, but I'm not telling anyone how JABBERLOOP's OOParts is better than the pillows's OOPARTS.[/quote]

I admit, it annoys me when people come in here talking about how "xxxx" artist is doing better than the pillows musically... but since I'm not one of those people, all I can do is agree with you here. I don't think I've dissed the pillows at all. If I have any problems with their music, I post legitimate reasons as to why I don't like a song. I think that's fine in a pillows discussion forum. As far as I can tell, I get enjoyment from the pillows newer albums just as much as you.

[quote="Raid"]Also I'm not trying to insult anyone or anything, I could care less what you people think of the latest releases, I just find it rude when you're telling someone to STFU because what they say is ridiculous. If anything, Camio is just telling us to shut up and stop being so pessimistic, maybe you should listen to him instead of telling him to shut up.[/quote]

Camio hasn't offered anything to the discussion that indicates to me I should listen to him at all. When he does, then maybe I will.

[quote="GoldenRhino"]stfu[/quote]
stfu

>TA12
Well, I guess we pretty much agree on most points, and this isn't going to go anywhere anytime soon, we'll just see how the new single sounds. I just hope you guys give it a fair chance

just

Fine by me, I suppose. Not going to get excited this early out, and I do have to say that the name itself doesn't exactly inspire great confidence, but names on pillows' songs don't really mean a thing anyway...
Hopefully this'll match up with some of the better songs off of Ooparts or 1989 and doesn't end up mediocre fluff...