It's not obvious, it's snide and dismissive. I've been messaged repeatedly over the past few years by various people about this exact issue and how it has kept their friends away from joining our community, or how it drove them away. IM has a reputation as a bunch of snobby elitists, and it's really not an okay thing.

Nobody's saying you can't disagree. I'm encouraging disagreement, with the caveat that people are respectful towards each other, ESPECIALLY towards a new member who's excited to share with the board things they like. Anybody who says otherwise (edit: at least, most people, imo) is just trying to protect their ego because they know they're guilty of that sort of childish behavior.

Point taken. That this entire ridiculous conversation has sprung from a single, one-line reply of mine blows my mind. The sentetiousness here is palpable, but I'm going to just pack it up and give ya'll what you've wanted for a long time.

Ultimately, sl4 makes a pretty good point, I suppose. Why should I bother hanging out on a forum for a band whose best album ([b][u]IN MY OPINION[/u]!!!![/b]) in the past decade or so has been a collection of demos from 20+ years ago? It's a waste of time, honestly, especially when the majority of posters appear to find many of my posts "dismissive", "rude", etc. My time is more valuable than that, and so is everyone else's. I'm just gonna lurk and spare y'all from my opinions/content. No more unpopular opinions, no more rants on current topics, no more pissing people off. I'm still interested in the pillows. I'm not interested in having my posts dissected and policed by members in a community who have apparently no sense of humor. It's just a shame it took me 1,500+ posts to realize it. That's a lot of time I've spent face-murdering people's pillows-related happiness.

Without my contributions I hope that the overall negativity on the board will decline and that guys like SteppinLoud won't feel threatened to share their opinions.

@ SteppinLoud, sorry if you found my post offensive. I've gone back and deleted it so that it won't deter any other newbies.

Peace, guys.

See, this is the sort of ego defense I'm talking about. Rather than say "hey, maybe you guys have a point and I can express myself in a way that is more positive here," you say "oh, you don't want me around, then?" I mean, you're getting flak for a particular method of expressing things, and you twist that around to be about "posting unpopular opinions"? Silliness.

This is a long-standing forum issue that isn't just about you, but if you would rather read into it like that so that you can feel justified in running away instead of improving your character...well, that's your choice to make. I generally enjoy your posts, I just don't think it's at all acceptable for us to continue acting this way as a community.

Edit: State your opinions, but be mature and respectful about how you disagree, ESPECIALLY in this section of the forum. Fuck around in the Killing Field, go hog wild, but let's try to finish the culture shift that we've been slowly inching towards since the buffet and co. cleared out a couple years back and make this an actually welcoming community to participate in instead of shutting down new members for not agreeing with us on our favorites.

I know that it probably feels like the community's jumping all over you right now, but it's really just me, on two unrelated issues in two different threads over a short time period. Sorry if it comes off as more of a personal attack than a discussion of language, because that is definitely not my intent here. Again, I enjoy you being around the forum, personally, I just want us to hold ourselves to a slightly higher standard where it comes to not driving off potential members.

Whoa. Man, you guys be crazy. I'm not a new member. I was in this scene years ago. Hell, I remember when this negativity was way more pervasive than it is now, shit. I don't think there was a single positive comment for 4 or 5 months after My Foot was released!

Anyway, I thought the gif was funny. I figured it would be an unpopular opinion.

And whoever mentioned those Good Dreams tracks...yeah, those are great! But when is the last time you were like "I could really use some Lo-Fi Boy in my life!"? Or "man, Bad Dreams, you're getting me all hot and bothered." Shit just ain't happenin'. It's inconsistent as all hell. I'm not saying this album rocked my face off or anything. But, at least to these ears and this mind, it has a consistency that has been lacking for a number of releases. I have listened to this entire album without skipping anything...well, I may have deleted [i]Song for You[/i].

Why you only seven posts?

It's gotten too silly here for me. When a dude posts a gif like that and it leads this kind of evaluation of his character, especially among such a tight knit group like ours, I just roll my eyes now a days.

I realize now I just don't take the pillows' new material seriously at all really. This reality hit me like a ton of bricks upon the release of Moondust. Ah well, time to move on... they will still always be one of my favorite bands for the majority of their work in their best years.

I'm not sure how this is a huge "evaluation of his character" so much as a discussion of language and expression of opinion, but yes, it does get silly.

It's silly that our forum has such a shitty reputation, and it's silly that people aren't willing to think about why that is or consider changing approach. How many times do people have to post in a thread about how much they dislike something before they're satisfied? Is it really contributing to discussion, or just establishing a hegemony of opinion?

People alternate between complaining that this forum is dead and actively creating an atmosphere that prevents it from being more lively.

Man, I'm always stirring up the shit. I think both sides of this epic war are correct: that is, who cares? Mare, maybe this place is dead because the pillows just don't produce music that inspires people to get involved anymore. Or maybe it's because FLCL hasn't been on the air for a while (I have no idea if that's the case). If people want to be here, they'll be here. This place was boomin' in its most sarcastic, slimy and unlikeable state. Do I think that's why? Nah. I also don't think some gifs and stuff are going to (or should) scare anyone off. I mean, think of the children! ...or whatever.

I left a few years ago (I was Dizzid, look at my history, I was a huuuge tool) because I got bored of the pillows. Fired 'em up recently and stoked the old flame. I'm back, bitches! Anyway, I lost my point before I hit the first key but I think it had something to do with the pillows are pretty awesome. LOVE EM OR LEAVE EM. But don't, stay. But definitely listen to Moondust with open ears and an open heart, or an OOPEART if you will (hah, a stretch?), because it sounds like Sawao is actually trying to sing in this one. And that, my friends, is impressive.

Nah, you're not stirring shit, that'd be me mostly. People hate being criticized, so we can't really have a discussion about how we express our opinions without it becoming some huge argument about "but I like dismissing other people's opinions and it's all in good fun!" vs "we can do better than this."

Back to the main topic at hand, I think Anemone is my overall favorite track on the new album still, but it kind of depends on my mood on a given day.

That's true. But as a moderator your time might be more effectively spent deleting posts that break specifically defined rules than trying to police opinions. You have to choose your battles. We're all friends here. I find it humorous that some folks seem a bit butt-hurt over your telling them their actions are potentially causing others to be butt-hurt.

Anyway, the track names are in gibberish (to me, that'd be Japanese), so I'll say I really dig track 5 and Ideal affection. The last track is usually some throwaway that I would delete after the first listen (even going alllll the way back to Thank You, My Twilight). Imagine my pleasant surprise when the chorus was actually quite...well, awesome. And dat bass. Those overly overdriven drum fills are a bit meh though.

I was actually just commenting to some people this afternoon about how Ideal Affection has grown on me. The chorus is groovy as hell, and Manabe's lead dances around so much throughout the rest of the song that I can't help but love it. Both Ideal Affection and Pumpkin and Atrocity surprised me with how much I ended up liking them.

Re: debate over opinions, my entire point is not to police people's opinions (I'm actively encouraging people to create a space where opinions can be shared openly!), but to point out a behavior that specifically drives people away from our community. Creating extra rules to try and police the way people communicate isn't going to change the source of the behavior, and I'd much rather see people make an effort because it's the right thing to do and the nice thing to do than because they're afraid of a banhammer.

I see what you're saying, but you can't 'change the source of the behavior'. If you could there really would be one "true religion." Or the war on drugs would be effective! Hah! People have tried!

People will be dicks and that's ok: I'm a recovering dick. 'The Pillows' sure is a fluffy name, but I'm quite certain that most drawn to them are assholes like the rest of us, at least in their own way. I'm not saying being an asshole is right, but it's the internet! It's what people should expect. With mediocre anonymity comes great responsibility. Use your asshole wisely. Shit, the name Dizzid has followed me around in life far further than you would expect (or hope!)

Anyway, this album is a step in the right direction for the band. Now, I can say "if they release an album only slightly better than this one" I'll be happy. And I truly mean that! This album is as [b]consistent[/b] as Happy Bivouac, but [i]not as good[/i]. There's a distinction there.

I simply choose to praise the good I find and ignore the rest (it's the methodology I have with my kid, hey). I think the next album should be interesting indeed. Perhaps we have yet to enter the golden age of the pillows after all? (Wow, am I cultist?) Or not, in which case I will delete this post.

They DID say "4th Movement is Coming." I know it's got me excited for 2015.

I'm also really really hoping for another US tour, as much as it's got to be a huge pain in the butt for them.

This side topic is really part of one of my main interests, so pardon me for continuing a tangent, but I really enjoy discussing this area. We definitely can change, and the way that we change is through our interactions with each other and our self-reflection. We can't really know that what we're doing is rude unless someone tells us so, and we can't change our behavior until we ourselves see, accept, and embrace the reasoning behind why the behavior is negative. The source of behavior is a person's habits, beliefs, knowledge, etc., and thus their interactions over time invariably change how they behave.

Even if somebody doesn't change today, when the person in question is somebody that I know to be a particularly intelligent and worthwhile person, I believe it to be worth my time to try to point out to them both why their approach is undesirable for the situation at hand and what a better approach to the conversation would be, because communication is pretty much one of the single most important aspects of our lives. It's how all of our societies and groups mediate their behavior and share information, so doing so in a positive and effective way, or at least avoiding doing so in an outright negative way, is a pretty big deal. Especially when your community has a bad reputation specifically because of negative approaches.

I think we're getting the internet turned back on later today, so perhaps I'll post about my evaluation of Moondust more in earnest when I get to use a keyboard again.

I was thinking it might be fun to do a nice line graph of all pillows albums, perhaps more than a simple line graph but like illustration style with funny names for the locales, or maybe a map. I know a lot of IM would just end up with a stratosphere penetrating plataeu on one side and an average size plataeu on the other, with fucking spicy baroque or doggie howl remix as hell demons climbing out of the OOPARTS crevice.

[quote="Cloudy_One"]I think we're getting the internet turned back on later today, so perhaps I'll post about my evaluation of Moondust more in earnest when I get to use a keyboard again.

I was thinking it might be fun to do a nice line graph of all pillows albums, perhaps more than a simple line graph but like illustration style with funny names for the locales, or maybe a map. I know a lot of IM would just end up with a stratosphere penetrating plataeu on one side and an average size plataeu on the other, with fucking spicy baroque or doggie howl remix as hell demons climbing out of the OOPARTS crevice. [/quote]
Dude, Sayonara spacy is awesome. lol.