[quote="Marekenshin"][quote="MyFoot"]It's hard to tell, however, if sometimes people are actually being subjective, or are just fellating their favorite artists.[/quote]

This right here is the problem with the general attitude about musical opinions. You personally can't understand why someone likes something to the extent that they do, so you assume that they must simply be shutting down their tastes in order to falsely enjoy something. If you think you're consistent in your taste, and think musical taste is subjective, why do you keep saying shit like "There is no question, I hope, in most pillows fan's mind, that Horn Again and Ooparts are not quality pillows tracks."?

Grow up, already, duders. You're most of the way there, the next step is realizing and accepting that while sometimes you won't understand the tastes of others, that doesn't mean they're being crazy somehow or that you can still argue about what is objectively better or whatever.[/quote]

Mare said it best time and time again. Some of my friends are still wondering why I listen to a Japanese rock group while they're listening to artists like Iggy Azalea, nicki minaj and drake. I have nothing against their taste in music because it is THEIR taste. If they like what they like thats cool, but just because you have someone who likes the same artist/band doesn't give you the right to put them down just because you think they don't know better or are uneducated in pillowsophy.

What I don't understand is why some people still post here when it's been over 10 years since the pillows last released an album they liked. Find another band you can get excited about; what good does it do to hang around here pissing on other peoples' parades?

Well, it's as much a social circle and community as it is a pillows fan forum most of the time, and it's kind of like still hanging out with your friends you made on a sports team or something even after you stop playing the sport competitively.

It has definitely improved around here as a general whole in terms of people's attitudes, to be fair, which is great, but it's just absolutely frustrating to see members being so negative towards new members expressing their opinion, when that's the sort of behavior that time and again has driven people away from our community. Do we want to be a bunch of self-destructive derps picking at each other over every disagreement or a bunch of fucking mature individuals capable of discussing and appreciating our various enjoyments of a shared interest?

This shouldn't be that hard, but for some reason a lot of people can't distinguish between cracking jokes and expressing disagreement in a condescending way that skews towards invalidating the opinions of others.

Imagine a group of fucking kids sitting around talking about trucks, and three of them are like "I really love blue trucks!" Two are like "I really like green trucks!" Another kid comes in and says "Oh man, I love trucks, too! My favorite truck is red!"

And then the other kids tell him to fuck off because everybody knows red trucks are stupid and he must be an idiot, crazy, or a liar for thinking something like that.

Not even fucking kids are as shitty about taste as we are here, and kids are monsters.

[quote="Marekenshin"]Can we stop consistently shitting on other people's enjoyment of things? Seriously. People have said their piece on that front, be done with it. Continuing to not like something adds jack all to the discussion, and flaunting negative judgment of OPINIONS constantly just makes for a shitty atmosphere. We don't have to respond to everything said we disagree with, especially if the only contribution we have is basically just "I disagree and think your opinion is shitty."

Thanks guys.[/quote]

I see what you're saiyan, but if someone's gonna deliberately stir shit like 'There are songs on Moondust that are better than Good Dreams, Walkin' on the Spiral, Sono Mirai wa Ima, and Frontiers', then that deserves, *at a minimum*, a snarky gif in response.

I think two of those four are excellent, and the other two are very good, and I also think Happy Birthday is excellent. I believe I have met the conditions. One snarky gif, please, and a sobe lifewater.

[quote="GoldenRhino"][quote="Marekenshin"]Can we stop consistently shitting on other people's enjoyment of things? Seriously. People have said their piece on that front, be done with it. Continuing to not like something adds jack all to the discussion, and flaunting negative judgment of OPINIONS constantly just makes for a shitty atmosphere. We don't have to respond to everything said we disagree with, especially if the only contribution we have is basically just "I disagree and think your opinion is shitty."

Thanks guys.[/quote]

I see what you're saiyan, but if someone's gonna deliberately stir shit like 'There are songs on Moondust that are better than Good Dreams, Walkin' on the Spiral, Sono Mirai wa Ima, and Frontiers', then that deserves, *at a minimum*, a snarky gif in response.[/quote]

[quote="GoldenRhino"][quote="Marekenshin"]Can we stop consistently shitting on other people's enjoyment of things? Seriously. People have said their piece on that front, be done with it. Continuing to not like something adds jack all to the discussion, and flaunting negative judgment of OPINIONS constantly just makes for a shitty atmosphere. We don't have to respond to everything said we disagree with, especially if the only contribution we have is basically just "I disagree and think your opinion is shitty."

Thanks guys.[/quote]

I see what you're saiyan, but if someone's gonna deliberately stir shit like 'There are songs on Moondust that are better than Good Dreams, Walkin' on the Spiral, Sono Mirai wa Ima, and Frontiers', then that deserves, *at a minimum*, a snarky gif in response.[/quote]

God fucking damn it do I hope you're trolling and not just being purposefully unhelpful and obstinate here.

Not to "get into it", but I think LH's response/gif was tame, fair game, and kinda funny. His disagreement is not overwrought, redundant, or irrelevant.

It's not "over the top," but it's certainly a negative response and seeks to impose one opinion into a dominating position over the one this new member has expressed. Especially when other people dogpile and start agreeing that the newcomer is "wrong."

Short argument: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0la5DBtOVNI

You can say "oh neat, not many people like X as much as Y or Z. My personal favorite is Z, but I really like A, B, and C tracks off of X pretty well. What's your overall favorite song by the pillows?"

and suddenly you're inviting them into the community and validating their opinion while still expressing your "disagreement." We don't have to have a negative approach to displaying our opinions, and doing so is frankly kind of a sign of immaturity in that specific area of social interaction. Not a big deal, but it's honestly something that people engaging in that sort of activity ought to think about. You can say "I'm just joking" all you want, but at the end of the day, if you're shitting on someone else's favorite album or something, you're kind of being an asshole, even if just a bit of one.

What benefit does ANYBODY get out of a negative response other than temporarily making themselves feel better about their opinion by putting someone else's down?

[quote="Marekenshin"]What benefit does ANYBODY get out of a negative response other than temporarily making themselves feel better about their opinion by putting someone else's down?[/quote]
It helps ensure forum activity remains nonexistent!

Jesus fuck, y'all. It was a joke. Doesn't really warrant an in-depth discussion. Now that I see that this isn't a "hey, let's have some fun needling other fans of your favorite band" zone, I'll refrain from doing so in the future. Wasn't being malicious, believe it or not.

YES, I prefer Good Dreams to the entirety of Moon Dust. NO, I'm not really trying to put other people's opinions down to somehow make myself feel better about my opinion. Though it may not have seemed like it, I was just having fun, messing around. You're all entitled to your own opinions on the pillows, even if they don't align with my own. The opinion upthread did clash with my own, and I thought it'd be fun to post a snarky .gif in response. My bad.

Edit: Let's be real, though. All of you motherfuckers saved that .gif to your massive folder of snarky reaction .gifs. Just own up to it.

And, like, look. It's pretty clear that *some* of us don't like recent albums as well as their older stuff. We're still fans and we're still entitled to share our opinions here, no? Is sharing a negative opinion of Moon Dust or OOPARTS really "raining on everyone's parade"? Is the sole purpose of this board simply to share positive opinions? Because if so, that doesn't really feel constructive to me. I've been listening to these guys as long as the rest of you. the pillows (believe it or not) are pretty much my favorite band, even after all these years. I guess sharing a negative opinion in the form of a snarky meme or picture or whatever may seem passive aggressive, but I don't really have the time to write a novel about why I prefer Good Dreams to Moon Dust and, again, when I do things like that, it's not because I hate you and your opinions. I'm just having fun with you. Obviously it's not like y'all are waiting on tenterhooks for Lesser_Hamster to lay out his opinions in full anyhow, but the discussions here, positive or negative, are valuable because, well, you guys are practically the only people in the world who I can discuss this band with.

In the future I'll try not to rile people up and provide more thoughtful criticisms if I'm discussing a song.album/whatever. But can we just try and lighten up? Can't we discuss the pillows like friends, make sarcastic remarks, etc? It's not like I told the guy: "You like ___? Go fuck yourself and get off of mah forum, you n00b!"

It isn't the IM I know and love if we aren't taking the piss out of each other and being general asshats. It's rare that we get newcomers in general....maybe they should adapt to the environment ;O

(Not directed at any newcomers in particular, if any newcomers are reading this.)

EDIT: and I agree with LH's second post. Let's not take ourselves too seriously here folks.

What matters is not whether you INTEND to be malicious, but what the impact of your actions are upon the people around you. Maturity!~

[quote="Lesser_Hamster"]Is sharing a negative opinion of Moon Dust or OOPARTS really "raining on everyone's parade"?[/quote]

No, telling someone their opinion is wrong and "needling" at them is, though, which is what we see way too much around here. You can express your opinion without being a dick, end of story.


[quote="Lesser_Hamster"]Is the sole purpose of this board simply to share positive opinions? Because if so, that doesn't really feel constructive to me.[/quote]
[quote="I"]Short argument: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0la5DBtOVNI

You can say "oh neat, not many people like X as much as Y or Z. My personal favorite is Z, but I really like A, B, and C tracks off of X pretty well. What's your overall favorite song by the pillows?"[/quote]

[quote]I don't really have the time to write a novel about why I prefer Good Dreams to Moon Dust[/quote]

You don't have to. You can just state your preference and move on, as above.


[quote="Lesser_Hamster"]again, when I do things like that, it's not because I hate you and your opinions. I'm just having fun with you.[/quote]

Again, what benefit does this give to anybody other than you having fun at the expense of another person's opinion? You can express yourself without invalidating their opinion. If these are the only people you can really discuss this band with, maybe you should think about not treating those people poorly. You can try to justify your behavior to make yourself feel like you've made absolutely zero mistakes here, but at the end of the day, you have a choice to either grow past this sort of behavior or continue being a bit of an ass.

EDIT: It's especially fucked up to see this sort of thing be a new member's first interaction. Like I said before, kid comes in excited about a red truck and we all tell him to fuck off because we only like blue and green trucks. Pathetic.

But....no one told him to fuck off. And anyone who gets upset because people have different opinions than them on an Internet message board...shouldn't be on an Internet message board. It was obviously a tongue in cheek thing, Id hope everyone took it as such.