[quote="sheerheartattack"]Personal taste is not an objective ground by which to measure another's creativity. The end.[/quote]

While people say that Sawao's lost his creativity, he deserves credit for being able to keep the pillows around for as long as it has been around while consistently creating good albums. As for the most recent works, its decent, its not Living Field or Little Busters status but its good.

[quote="rockman240"][quote="Jomei"]You are, however, dead-on about Ladybird Girl being a nosedive into fail.[/quote]Am I the only one who thinks Ladybird girl is better than any song on WU3?[/quote]
I don't, but it certainly is a wonderful song.

[quote="Jomei"]You are, however, dead-on about Ladybird Girl being a nosedive into fail. I don't consider it terribly creative to just plug tried-and-true chord progressions into pop-rock formulas without adding the interesting twists that Sawao used to implement more often.[/quote]
Yep.

I'd say overall jedi's graph is pretty accurate.

I don't entirely agree with Jedi's post, but I'll definitely say that they've been playing it a bit too safe in these last few years.
Also, the entire musical style that the pillows are going to (have changed into) is an important factor as well. Maybe creativity lends itself better to certain genres and styles? It'd depend on the person, but I think that sounds about right. Like if the pillows were getting into Blues for some strange reason. I wouldn't doubt that their songs would sound pretty formulaic. Music like Jazz, or music with a jazz-like sound (see: Living Field and Kool Spice) would be a better grounds to have different ideas come together. Same goes with straight up rock (LB, RH, HB). Not so much with this cleaned up, polished pop rock that they've been into for the last two/three albums.

That's just how I'd see it. The pillows' recent trends haven't hindered my enjoyment of their music. I understand that muted powerchords and the Canon progression are pretty standard and boring, but is it so wrong to adore Ladybird Girl's chorus? Not in a "THIS IS GENIUS" sort of way, but more of an "Oh, Sawao! <3 <3". Maybe me being a fanboy has something to do with it. I don't really give a damn though.
Of course, back in their middle-era there are probably more "timeless" songs, songs that can be heard over and over again that will withstand the test of time. (See: all of Little Busters sans Happy Zoo)

So yeah -- Sawao's creativity is something interesting to talk about.
But what vexes me is why Jedi is so compelled to hate the pillows' recent music. He was beating on Ladybird Girl the same way Tommy Vercetti beat up hookers in GTA 3.

What's the deal, Jedi? You have your beef with Sawao, most of us here tend to think differently. Why do you stick around? Does it sadden you that IM is a group of people that enjoys something you dislike?
Could you honestly just tell us why you haven't left already?

I say this with all due respect, seriously.

Jedi has a recent history of hating anything new from Sawao, but I really REALLY can't blame him for Ladybird Girl. I hate that song like Mel Gibson hates the Jews.

[quote="Jomei"] I hate that song like Mel Gibson hates the Jews.[/quote]

ZING!

A WILD JEWBAT APPEARED!

GO! MEL GIBSON!

MEL GIBSON USED SCRATCH!

IT'S SUPER EFFECTIVE!

ENEMY JEWBAT FAINTED!

[quote="rockman240"]A WILD JEWBAT APPEARED!

GO! MEL GIBSON!

MEL GIBSON USED SCRATCH!

IT'S SUPER EFFECTIVE!

ENEMY JEWBAT FAINTED![/quote]

Go Hebrew Hammer!


[img]http://graphics.boston.com/bonzai-fba/Third_Party_Photo/2003/12/08/1070891092_6238.jpg[/img]

I respect the man for the fact he could shell out singles and albums like it's nothing to him. His music may seem more formulmatic than before but more often than not he'll deliver.

I don't know what you guys have been listening to, but Sawao's music has been formulaic throughout the entire career of the pillows.

Just because certain genres sound more creative or skillful doesn't mean that they are. In fact, this thoroughly-produced sound that you all are so quick to dismiss takes much more creativity and skill than you apparently suspect. Likewise, the pillows' "jazzy" sound found in, say, "Living Field" or "Kool Spice" certainly does not deserve to be put on this mysterious pedestal that you all have created. My guess is that the lot of you only have a basic understanding of these different genres, and decide that if they sound skillful from a rudimentary standpoint, then they must be. Of course, finally, the holy trinity of pillows albums (LB, RH, HB) features some of the pillows most simplistic material of their entire career.

Seriously, it all balances out to a nice even and consistent line - a line that does not feature the crests and troughs of popular opinion and personal preference.

[quote="sheerheartattack"]I don't know what you guys have been listening to, but Sawao's music has been formulaic throughout the entire career of the pillows.[/quote]

This is very very true. That whole verse, verse, chorus, verse, chorus, solo, chorus thing, right? In 90% of pillows songs, Manabe will be soloing at the 3/4 mark.

That said, I definitely think you can be formulaic and have varying levels of originality and creativity. But it seems like you already implied that. And sheer, while some of us may put Kool Spice and Living Field on a "mysterious pedestal", I think it's more the fact that we recognize that there's a bit more musical complexity going on in those albums.

I'd disagree. I guess I can see his point though...

Either way, if someone doesn't like Sawao I don't see why they keep listening to songs and keep bashing them. Their last few albums sucked? Don't listen to them stick to what you like. I don't mind some sort of constructive criticism, but sometimes it just gets out of hand. I really don't like ging nang Boyz, and honestly I don't see how anyone can like them. But I don't go around saying bad things about them, since thats just MY opinion.

Constructive criticism is only constructive criticism if it has an objective point.

"Sawao should be making music the way I like it" is just useless criticism.

Edit: As to GR, while it may be argued that there is more musical complexity in those albums (which is a moot point anyway), that still has no bearing on creativity or productive value. Like I mentioned, the pillows' holy trinity featured some of their least sophisticated works to date, yet it is difficult to say that they lack value or creativity.

I'm at lost here Sheer.... Could you please elaborate on what would be one of their more sopshisticated works? I'm not all for the technicalities when it comes to listening to music, whatever sounds good to me will win me over. Having overly complex songs doesn't mean that it'll be good imo.