[quote="Blank"] Then again, I suppose all we can say is, "HOLLYWOOD"[/quote]

[quote="sheerheartattack"][quote="I is buster?"]
It would be like having Captain America guest star in a movie. The director and the writer obviously felt the need to portray Spiderman as an American hero, rather than just a hero, which has this, "America is the best" connotation to it. Luckily, it is rated PG-13 so the really young and impressionable don't get that message from the movies they see, they're parents should be enough for that.
[/quote]

Spiderman's setting = United States of America
Therefore, Spiderman = American Hero

There is no connotation that "America is the best." That's rather paranoid to think that it's a product of the American propaganda machine. If Captain America guest stars in a movie, it's because the movie seeks to attract Captain America's fanbase to generate revenue - nothing more.

Gosh, that's a silly assumption you made there.
[/quote]

Gosh, you're an obnoxiously contentious person.

Would you say that the Punisher is an American hero just because he is in America? Daredevil? Batman? (Gotham is based on NYC) Even Superman? Just because they are living an American city, doesn't mean that they are directly fighting for America. They are fighting for truth and justice, which is a democratic ideal, but not unnecessarily American ideal. Though characters such as Captain America make this connection directly, it is left up to the viewers to make this connection themselves if they want to. I didn't. Characters are fighting villains because 1. the hero is directly attacked and 2 the villain is stealing things or killing people. The American government (for most cases) does not commission these heros to do things, they save people out of the good will in their hearst and the responsibility to do good.

The movie, however, makes this connection with supplements to the idea that "America is the best." In the film Venom and he Sandman are terrorizing people, but where are they? In between skyscrapers and a construction site. In any normal situation, this would be a common fighting area for a villain and hero. However, since Spiderman ran in front of the flag before he goes and fights them, it gives the viewer the idea that he is fighting for America (even though he is really going to save MJ) Though I don't remember them specifically crashing into the buildings, but it could be a 9/11 reference. Since Spiderman wins, which he is representing America, it shows this idea to people. When you link an awesome character like Spiderman and the American flag together, bad things happen...

This may be stretching it a bit, but sandman wasn't really a huge character in Spiderman, so I was wondering why they chose him. In that scene the "Sand"man, since he is evil (sorta), there could be a middle eastern reference and terrorists. maybe... I wouldn't count on the director of an entertainment film being that good at symbolism (or in this case, subliminal messaging)

With all the censorship that we have today it's just ridiculous to see something like that in a movie that's generally aimed at younger people, and you know with all the bad parents here that a lot of little kids will see it too... You know how the Spiderman movies come out, but they are rated PG-13, but at the same time toys come out that are intended for kids 7+. What's up with that?

Also, Captain America sucks. He is just some guy in a suit with a shield that he throws at bad guys... lame.


Also, I can't beileve I just wasted 30min typing this out... also lame

Excuse the double post...

[quote="sheerheartattack"] fictitious concept called "artistic integrity."[/quote]

Also, fuck off.

[quote="I is buster?"]

[color=red][b][size=200]This may be stretching it a bit.[/size][/b][/color][/quote]

Holy shit, yes. Drawing conclusions from nothing? Good job, you must be a conspiracy theorist. To see any harm in this movie is so silly and ridiculous it's not even funny.

American - adj. - of or pertaining to the United States of America or its inhabitants.

hero - n. - a man of distinguished courage or ability, admired for his brave deeds and noble qualities.

Spiderman, Daredevil, Batman, and Superman are all American. They are all heroes. Therefore, they are all American heroes. There's no deep, hidden meaning meant to trample the foundation of the United States of America. It has nothing to do with fighting for America, and even if it did, it wouldn't have a connotation of American superiority. The first is a stretch. The second is ludicrous.

In any case, a backdrop of the American flag has nothing to do with either of these, nor is there any potential of polluting the minds of the nation's youth. That is simply absurd, and to think that is incredibly laughable.

[quote="I is buster?"]
[quote="sheerheartattack"] fictitious concept called "artistic integrity."[/quote]

Also, fuck off.[/quote]

Thanks. Anyhow, one man's "artistic integrity" is another man's "selling out." To even consider the term is an absurd contradiction. It's entirely subjective, and there'll always be a person making pointless claims against a person's "artistic integrity." Talk about useless.

[quote="I is buster?"]
Also, Captain America sucks. He is just some guy in a suit with a shield that he throws at bad guys... lame.[/quote]
Oh no you didn't. I used to think Captain America was lame too but then I read Civil War. Now I have but nothing but respect for the man.

[quote="I is buster?"]long ass thing[/quote]

why are you over analyzing the movie? where did these 9\11 references come from? srsly

anyways, the movie was a bit rushed. But hey, it was good.

rumors of 3 more spidey movies. what other villians are left....carnage, shocker, vulture, kingpin, the rhino....who is the next villian?

[quote="i is buster?"]DERR THEY USED A FLAG, DERR, OTHER SHIT DERR[/quote]

Oh god. That was the most true-to-comic thing possible. American hero, American flag. AWESOME.

[quote="sheerheartattack"][quote="I is buster?"]

[color=red][b][size=200]This may be stretching it a bit.[/size][/b][/color][/quote]

Holy shit, yes. Drawing conclusions from nothing? Good job, you must be a conspiracy theorist. To see any harm in this movie is so silly and ridiculous it's not even funny.

American - adj. - of or pertaining to the United States of America or its inhabitants.

hero - n. - a man of distinguished courage or ability, admired for his brave deeds and noble qualities.

Spiderman, Daredevil, Batman, and Superman are all American. They are all heroes. Therefore, they are all American heroes. There's no deep, hidden meaning meant to trample the foundation of the United States of America. It has nothing to do with fighting for America, and even if it did, it wouldn't have a connotation of American superiority. The first is a stretch. The second is ludicrous.

In any case, a backdrop of the American flag has nothing to do with either of these, nor is there any potential of polluting the minds of the nation's youth. That is simply absurd, and to think that is incredibly laughable.

[quote="I is buster?"]
[quote="sheerheartattack"] fictitious concept called "artistic integrity."[/quote]

Also, fuck off.[/quote]

Thanks. Anyhow, one man's "artistic integrity" is another man's "selling out." To even consider the term is an absurd contradiction. It's entirely subjective, and there'll always be a person making pointless claims against a person's "artistic integrity." Talk about useless.[/quote]

Ok, obviously you did not even get the gist of what I was saying, and I don't care enough to reword my argument to make it clear to you. Also, no I am not a conspiracy theorist, I hate conspiracy theorist. I just saw something different in the movie that I thought was ridiculous, you guys liked it and I didn't. I don't see any real harm within the movie,I was just pointing out possibilities of the director's bias. If you don't believe me then that's fine, but you don't have to parade around and make a mockery out of concepts that I'm not directly forcing upon you. The whole "American Hero" thing you look literally, I took it figuratively. So if you want to discuss the figurative meaning like I did and stop comparing apples to oranges, then be my guest.

Also, I'm moderately certain that you put that artistic integrity bit in there just because you know I was reading this thread... maybe.

I'm analyzing the movie because I am a art/film major who wants to find some sort of redeemable quality from an average Hollywood film...

'scuse the double post. It's really late for me and I can't sleep, so some of this may sound... ahh forget it.

I just rethought the flag scene. The director used it as visual symbolism for sure, but maybe rather than being corny propaganda, it was supposed to show the publics acceptance of spider-man... further. Yeah, they had the parade and stuff, maybe this was just to keep with the same idea from the publics point of view. In the movie version Spidey was kinda not accepted fully at first (mainly because of Jameson), so I think it does add to the movie in that sense

[quote="I is buster?"]'scuse the double post. It's really late for me and I can't sleep, so some of this may sound... ahh forget it.

I just rethought the flag scene. The director used it as visual symbolism for sure, but maybe rather than being corny propaganda, it was supposed to show the publics acceptance of spider-man... further. Yeah, they had the parade and stuff, maybe this was just to keep with the same idea from the publics point of view. In the movie version Spidey was kinda not accepted fully at first (mainly because of Jameson), so I think it does add to the movie in that sense[/quote]

I'll accept this explanation better, although I think the best explanation is that the director thought it looked cool, and thought audiences would think it looked cool too. So I forgive you for your propaganda paranoia, and I'll apologize for accusing you of being a conspiracy theorist.

Anyway, I added the artistic integrity bit in spite of Blank, actually. Not to say there doesn't exist a standard of "artistic integrity" to each individual person, but in the whole, there is no such thing. To accuse someone of a lack of artistic integrity is incredibly ridiculous, as nobody knows exactly what this concept entails, what the artist's intents are, etc.

[quote="sheerheartattack"]
Anyway, I added the artistic integrity bit in spite of Blank, actually. Not to say there doesn't exist a standard of "artistic integrity" to each individual person, but in the whole, there is no such thing. To accuse someone of a lack of artistic integrity is incredibly ridiculous, as nobody knows exactly what this concept entails, what the artist's intents are, etc.[/quote]

I agree that there is no collective idea of Artistic Integrity because art is entirely subjective (in my opinion, you can't win an argument either way). However, this means that if you attack someone for their artistic integrity, that means that their work does not meet [u]your[/u] standards and is thus deemed useless.

So basically "The artist's mind" /= "The viewer's mind" I could get into al lengthy discussion as to why, but I would be repeating what I learned in Art Discussion class, and that would be incredibly boring...

See, I'm all for rooting out subliminal propaganda, but I think you are looking to far into it.
I haven't seen the movie though, so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.

...Captain America was cool.

[color=white]He really was, because in X-Men evolution, they had this episode about how Captain America was like, the first mutant created by the government and they sent him over to Germany to fight in WWII and shiz. It totally made sense that Captain America was a mutant.[/color]

[quote="Blank"]...Captain America was cool.
He really was, because in X-Men evolution, they had this episode about how Captain America was like, the first mutant created by the government and they sent him over to Germany to fight in WWII and shiz. It totally made sense that Captain America was a mutant.[/quote]

1. X-men: Evolution was decent at best.
2. Maybe Cap was cool when you were a kid, but looking back all he did was fight Nazis, Communists and basically any of America's enemies at the time. It was comic book form of propaganda... Spidey fought generic, non-representational characters almost all of the time. Plus, the whole Soldier Serum thing was kinda lame, it needs to be more fantastical and strange like being bitten by a radioactive spider, DNA mutation, or being from another planet. Guys like Iron Man and Captain America have no real motive, other than to serve their country and only get to do so because of possibly real situations. The Punisher and Batman didn't have powers, but they were kick ass cuz they were out for vengeance and such. Plus the punisher was bad-ass.
3. It would make sense that Captain America would be in X-men, especially considering that Mystique was actually a Nazi officer and such.

About 1/3 of the movie was good. Needed much more Venom and much less lovey-dovey emo romance subplot stuff.