Yeah my bad I read that wrong. You're right. I still stand by the fact that it's more worthy than appropriate... But whatever I'll let you be the expert. I wasn't upset or anything either... >_>

D: sorry. It's hard to tell tone on the internet. And I'm no expert, I'm still learning, I'm just trying to explain why I thought that phrase made more sense to me. This is what I got for a translation of it:

===========================
Whose fault is it
that you closed your heart?
Looked down upon by the red moon,
are you in a bad mood tonight too?

If you look straight at the dream with both eyes,
though it's so bright that it hurts.

The swallow is right for the sky, the whale for the sea.
The bee is probably in love with the flower.
People meet people and look at themselves.
I'm in love with you;
please realize that.

The reason that this shivering won't stop
is because I want to get past that wall.
That my tears overflowed
is proof that I'm serious.

Even if everybody puts a straight face,
I won't mimic them.

I still want to cause an uproar about
this shapeless sparkle that is being snatched away.
Now's adventure
isn't a nostalgic memory.
I'm calling out to you;
please understand.

If you look straight at the dream with both eyes,
though it's so bright that it hurts.

The swallow is right for the sky, the whale for the sea.
The bee is probably in love with the flower.
People meet people and look at themselves.
I might be right for you;
please try me.

Whose fault is it
that you closed your heart?
Looked down upon by the red moon,
are you in a bad mood tonight too?
=============================

I can't seem to figure out how to include the "doko no" in that first phrase. Maybe a slightly looser translation of "someone somewhere caused you to close your heart," but that might be stretching it a little, I'm not sure.

Also, how would you work that "kedo" into the part about looking at the dream? The way I put it seems a little awkward/incomplete.

I don't mean to challenge your authority, especially since you're a native speaker, but I like to discuss Japanese and try to learn more about it. XD

edit: also, sometimes you can get a better translation if you discuss it with people and argue over interpretation of things, I think.

To give my two cents, translation is more like creating an "arrangement," rather than a "transcription," to use a music composition metaphor.

Your ultimate goal should be creating a translation where the reader will think, "Hey, this could have been written in English," much like a proper arrangement will make a person think, "This song must have been written for an orchestra/guitar/piano!"

Not as a complaint or anything, but as some constructive criticism, I don't think that level has yet been reached on IM translations, but in my short time here, I have seen a steady and significant improvement. I do believe Marekenshin's help is critical on the English side, whereas the native Japanese speakers' help is critical on the Japanese side.

I also happen to agree with Joyeuse that, in English at least, "beyond" sounds far better than "until the other side."

[quote]
I can't seem to figure out how to include the "doko no" in that first phrase. Maybe a slightly looser translation of "someone somewhere caused you to close your heart," but that might be stretching it a little, I'm not sure.

Also, how would you work that "kedo" into the part about looking at the dream? The way I put it seems a little awkward/incomplete.

[/quote]

Well it's hard to directly translate Jap to eng and expect it to sound right. Japanese has ways of saying things that have absolutely no meaning in english, much like how english has ways of saying things that doesn't make sense in japanese. My little brother always directly says english phrases in Japanese and I have to correct him because it's basically nonsense in Japanese.

Yeah, that's why it can sometimes be so hard to find a good way to put it into english. You want to preserve the original meaning, but it's hard to say it easily in English. D:

Keep in mind that the indevidual translators 'philosophy' about what a good translation consists of is largely responsible for varying translations. Some would rather translate as directly as possible despite any unnaturalness in the translated-to language, while others value keeping the poetic quality (if applicable) as intact as possible, and perhaps even sacrificing minor details for its sake. It seems to me that most fall somewhere in the middle of that basic spectrum, and people just need to understand these basic differences of opinion.

Personally I find a more direct translation more helpful (in the case of Japanese to English), though I'm sure more smoothed out translations might be nicer for many (if not most) others.

and people need to stop saying moon_margaret needs help with his (wait, it is he, right?) English.

Courtesy of some site off of the intrawebs:

Tsuyogari

rin to kamaeta sono shisei ni wa furukizu ga mie
omoi nimotsu wo motsu te nimo tsuyogari wo shiru

waratteite mo boku ni wa wakatterundayo
mienai kabe ga kimi no haato ni
tachi hadakatteru no wo

ka no naku youna tayorinai koe de
kimi no namae wo yondemita
kodokuna yoru wo koete massugu ni
mukiatte yo dakiatte yo hayaku

tsukazu hanarezu ga koi no subede mo
soba ni itai no yo
itsu kimi ga denwa kuretemo ii youni natteru

hanasu aite mo onozu to sebamattekundayo
chitchana negai wo itsu mo poketto ni
mochi aruiterunda

"yasashii ne" nante kaikaburunatte
ikari nimo niterukedo chigau
kanashimi wo koete massugu ni
mukiatte yo dakiatte yo tsuyoku

itoshisa no tsurezurede kakinarasu rokugen ni
bukiyouna yubi ga karande furueteru

tama ni wa chotto jishin ni michita koe de
kimi no na wo sakende minda
sseranakute iisa ippozutsu boku no soba ni oide
soshite itsuka boku to massugu ni
mukiatte yo dakiatte yo
hayaku tsuyoku aruga mama de tsuyogari mo sutete




It's not perfect, but it gets the job done.

I was wondering if there's going to be a translation for Tsuyogari any time soon. Also, what does "Tsuyogari" mean?

http://www.pirouzu.net/forum/viewtopic. ... 2&start=30

Yeah, this shit seems to happen all of the time. Anyway, I'll be nice and sum up the important post for you.

[quote="Joyeuse"][url]http://centigrade.blandplanet.com/translations/tsuyogari.htm[/url]

Took about fifteen seconds to find.[/quote]

[b]Scarecrow[/b]

Hasta el otro lado del sueño
planeo continuar el viaje
y traerte conmigo
Alguien dijo:
la historia llamada realidad
no es una respuesta

Probablemente puedas verla,
aquella débil luz
que estoy señalando
Puede ser efímera, puede ser una ilusión pero
probablemente la puedas ver

El oscurecido cielo, el molesto viento
Nuestras manos están frías pero
no te soltaré, quiero seguir caminando
Aunque no es una promesa, creí
Quiero llamarte
Espantapájaros

En el bullicio de esta falsa y brumosa ciudad
estaba a la deriva
Me siento deprimido
pero solo si mil lágrimas cayesen
sería el fin; solo entonces.

Probablemente puedas escucharla,
con una leve inclinación de tu cabeza,
la apropiada música.
Puede ser débil, pareciera que está a punto de desaparecer
pero probablemente puedas escucharla.

Esta parpadeante estrella, esta extraña oscuridad
aunque solo a medias, la luna sonríe
No es soledad, tampoco tristeza
por mi bien, tu sonríes
Quiero llamarte
Espantapájaros

El oscurecido cielo, el molesto viento
Nuestras manos están frías pero
no te soltaré, quiero seguir caminando
Más que en Dios creo en ti.
Probablemente muy pronto, justo frente a nuestros ojos
No estoy solo, no estoy solo.
Esta parpadeante estrella, esta extraña oscuridad
aunque solo a medias, la luna sonríe
Puedes llamarme
Espantapájaros

Hasta el otro lado del sueño
planeo continuar el viaje
y traerte conmigo.
_______________________________________________________

this is for the spanish people that like the pillows... ^^